From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29A0DC433EF for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04E17619F5 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:19 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1344562AbhI3PhA (ORCPT ); Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:37:00 -0400 Received: from netrider.rowland.org ([192.131.102.5]:41749 "HELO netrider.rowland.org" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with SMTP id S1344452AbhI3Pgw (ORCPT ); Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:36:52 -0400 Received: (qmail 472903 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Sep 2021 11:35:09 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:35:09 -0400 From: Alan Stern To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan , Borislav Petkov , x86@kernel.org, Bjorn Helgaas , Thomas Gleixner , Ingo Molnar , Andreas Noever , Michael Jamet , Yehezkel Bernat , "Rafael J . Wysocki" , Mika Westerberg , Jonathan Corbet , Jason Wang , Dan Williams , Andi Kleen , Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/6] driver core: Add common support to skip probe for un-authorized devices Message-ID: <20210930153509.GF464826@rowland.harvard.edu> References: <20210930010511.3387967-1-sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@linux.intel.com> <20210930010511.3387967-3-sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@linux.intel.com> <20210930065807-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20210930144305.GA464826@rowland.harvard.edu> <20210930104924-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210930104924-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:58:07AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:43:05AM -0400, Alan Stern wrote: > > I don't see any point in talking about "untrusted drivers". If a > > driver isn't trusted then it doesn't belong in your kernel. Period. > > When you load a driver into your kernel, you are implicitly trusting > > it (aside from limitations imposed by security modules). > > Trusting it to do what? Historically a ton of drivers did not > validate input from devices they drive. Most still don't. Trusting it to behave properly (i.e., not destroy your system, among other things). The fact that many drivers haven't been trustworthy is beside the point. By loading them into your kernel, you are trusting them regardless. In the end, you may regret having done so. :-( Alan Stern From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 715EDC433EF for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org (smtp3.osuosl.org [140.211.166.136]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1895C615A7 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:15 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.1 mail.kernel.org 1895C615A7 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=rowland.harvard.edu Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=lists.linux-foundation.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D914261403; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:14 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from smtp3.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp3.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nXM_hSFOh_9N; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.linuxfoundation.org (lf-lists.osuosl.org [140.211.9.56]) by smtp3.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9484C60697; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lf-lists.osuosl.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C679C0011; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org (smtp2.osuosl.org [140.211.166.133]) by lists.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25DD4C000D for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:12 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2C5F40371 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at osuosl.org Received: from smtp2.osuosl.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (smtp2.osuosl.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qftjP-u5OFGN for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: from auto-whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.8.0 Received: from netrider.rowland.org (netrider.rowland.org [192.131.102.5]) by smtp2.osuosl.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4577140354 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 15:35:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 472903 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Sep 2021 11:35:09 -0400 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:35:09 -0400 From: Alan Stern To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/6] driver core: Add common support to skip probe for un-authorized devices Message-ID: <20210930153509.GF464826@rowland.harvard.edu> References: <20210930010511.3387967-1-sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@linux.intel.com> <20210930010511.3387967-3-sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@linux.intel.com> <20210930065807-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> <20210930144305.GA464826@rowland.harvard.edu> <20210930104924-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20210930104924-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Cc: Jonathan Corbet , Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan , Andi Kleen , "Rafael J . Wysocki" , Michael Jamet , Greg Kroah-Hartman , x86@kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, Yehezkel Bernat , Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Andreas Noever , Ingo Molnar , Borislav Petkov , linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, Bjorn Helgaas , Thomas Gleixner , linux-usb@vger.kernel.org, Mika Westerberg , Dan Williams X-BeenThere: virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux virtualization List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: virtualization-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Sender: "Virtualization" On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:58:07AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote: > On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 10:43:05AM -0400, Alan Stern wrote: > > I don't see any point in talking about "untrusted drivers". If a > > driver isn't trusted then it doesn't belong in your kernel. Period. > > When you load a driver into your kernel, you are implicitly trusting > > it (aside from limitations imposed by security modules). > > Trusting it to do what? Historically a ton of drivers did not > validate input from devices they drive. Most still don't. Trusting it to behave properly (i.e., not destroy your system, among other things). The fact that many drivers haven't been trustworthy is beside the point. By loading them into your kernel, you are trusting them regardless. In the end, you may regret having done so. :-( Alan Stern _______________________________________________ Virtualization mailing list Virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualization