From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from mail-io1-f41.google.com (mail-io1-f41.google.com [209.85.166.41]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.subspace.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 74108168 for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 21:51:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-io1-f41.google.com with SMTP id k16so458155ios.10 for ; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 14:51:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+egNasBIj9EMUFU5Wwu1nvgxCZ+U9jX3uXdye1NifTI=; b=N33IKgiHv5UTb2qSG9jQSN5z7nMo/1tzVZVWfwlt+sb3gw8K9bd0Eat/OheXDrZZi+ zHxvQcxCbv5NXah0IaYxdud92AIZOLTi9ALFtbpd1yYcsVRiXPnJFVp/B+Lp+kjCQRV7 rMP2DqTfYAgs19O/ecK8UJon0WA1GoqB9qidIfWrE3mwQWRZrcDGEmjXboqhlZOnSBT+ 5pA6T2QlVU7XtLBT9u0S7E2numVYaR/EsHZjH4BzUkjBxltWZZPcaVG7LbAtXP0J/I/Z PWD3ZA4P74/RMxPyxrWUhfXIRNVtbydYtw9gRhQKaBzsZEZLF4B00Jl8YkQQt0J7XyfT MsRg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+egNasBIj9EMUFU5Wwu1nvgxCZ+U9jX3uXdye1NifTI=; b=H52dEcylwj5z6c44yU7PGGyVes7a+sNwLEEcMJU1388cl3zcSJr22ZXWf8MRURjeph HEwworBUnRuGRC3JTIv03TlxkAzDzUQk2pLCc8Wd364K2kN10YztdcYx770fTXaelQHS MTCkLVN790AJweDZK8y3D/7HxPihKlkl5okAI/WUsbIQDLSFZMPawXRFV5HXUi8b20kV ZWJKV6J/U9p85X4sx3YWJnB3DcF/3LJuL713/+wTIkPihjkSOypGkB4Gvh432dI4wLO2 DB5WVG2mSWruh1VaBStbp7quYMa2b9zQYYPFqyaWtj4hOYrmQV1A2Q32WH1vAc1OXPTz 5MkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532F2G0/xNhPsKxRSvf6kCCsz0twbTvaEU9nZ0/RAl5DrtdWmsi0 TBSSVRRH/LRNtCtinasjDJOH2l6mzDBrvfYuR9Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwluWo+NvEQmVGzpIWCIrvDR5tQa5cCntUhcs0bEHXVAITb0suuJF69EiVyIldp9RcIzymFYuAVlhaD+LUDbKo= X-Received: by 2002:a02:2b21:: with SMTP id h33mr1878388jaa.31.1625608262663; Tue, 06 Jul 2021 14:51:02 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk X-Mailing-List: ksummit@lists.linux.dev List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Miguel Ojeda Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 23:50:51 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [TECH TOPIC] Rust for Linux To: Sasha Levin Cc: Linus Walleij , Leon Romanovsky , ksummit@lists.linux.dev Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 10:47 PM Sasha Levin wrote: > > I strongly disagree. If we have abstractions for a particular subsystem > all it means that someone at some point did that work, nothing more than > that. > > That someone might have moved on, working elsewhere, retired, etc, and > those abstractions are living orphaned in the kernel. That problem is orthogonal to Rust/C. I already acknowledged that if you want to refactor Rust code, you will need some bare minimum Rust knowledge -- there is no way around that, for any language. And indeed, a second language introduces downsides like this -- this is also acknowledged in the original RFC. What I am saying is that, in the beginning (when most kernel developers are not accustomed to Rust), a solution would be that subsystem maintainers could step up and help those doing a refactor that touches their Rust code. We also discussed a bit of this in the original LKML discussion back in April; and we also offered ourselves (the Rust support folks) to help as much as we can if anybody is having issues on the Rust side. But yes, if Rust usage grows in the kernel, then eventually it would be much better if most kernel developers have a handle on Rust. > That's quite an ask. If the driver work goes in and I want to touch the > driver API, I need to get Greg KH to write code for me? I have not said that, and that obviously that does not scale. I am just stating what I think could help everyone during the transition period, assuming we share a common goal and accept Rust into the kernel. Cheers, Miguel