From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56065) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1csUOz-0005a8-Tt for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:09:43 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1csUOv-0007cp-Tf for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:09:41 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:38736) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1csUOv-0007at-KQ for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Mon, 27 Mar 2017 09:09:37 -0400 References: <3d1c16a1-ec05-0367-e569-64a63b34f2e3@redhat.com> <4a56f716-3528-ddd4-f8c4-f3f6b23c469a@redhat.com> <20170327120148.GC26900@stefanha-x1.localdomain> From: Thomas Huth Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2017 15:09:27 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vFUjMa5g23QviOQ22Bh9oMrP4rSKph0VF" Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] Deprecating the -net option List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Stefan Hajnoczi Cc: Paolo Bonzini , jasowang@redhat.com, John Snow , qemu-devel@nongnu.org This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --vFUjMa5g23QviOQ22Bh9oMrP4rSKph0VF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 27.03.2017 14:56, Thomas Huth wrote: > On 27.03.2017 14:01, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 10:06:09AM +0200, Thomas Huth wrote: >>> On 24.03.2017 23:10, John Snow wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> On 03/08/2017 03:26 AM, Thomas Huth wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi everybody, >>>>> >>>>> what will be the next version of QEMU after 2.9? Will we go for a 2= =2E10 >>>>> (as I've seen it mentioned a couple of times on the mailing list >>>>> already), or do we dare to switch to 3.0 instead? >>>>> >>>>> I personally dislike two-digit minor version numbers like 2.10 sinc= e the >>>>> non-experienced users sometimes mix it up with 2.1 ... and there ha= ve >>>>> been a couple of new cool features in the past releases that would >>>>> justify a 3.0 now, too, I think. >>>>> >>>>> But anyway, the more important thing that keeps me concerned is: So= meone >>>>> once told me that we should get rid of old parameters and interfac= es >>>>> (like HMP commands) primarily only when we're changing to a new maj= or >>>>> version number. As you all know, QEMU has a lot of legacy options, = which >>>>> are likely rather confusing than helpful for the new users nowadays= , >>>>> e.g. things like the "-net channel" option (which is fortunately ev= en >>>>> hardly documented), but maybe also even the whole vlan/hub concept = in >>>>> the net code, or legacy parameters like "-usbdevice". If we switch = to >>>>> version 3.0, could we agree to remove at least some of them? >>>>> >>>>> Thomas >>>>> >>>> >>>> As others have stated, we need a few releases to deprecate things fi= rst. >>>> >>>> Maybe we should develop a serious plan to develop some of our legacy= >>>> interfaces first. >>>> >>>> Maybe 2.10 can introduce a list of things we want to deprecate, >>>> 2.11 can be the transition release, >>>> and then 3.0 can cut the cord and free of us our terrible burden? >>>> >>>> I have a list of things I want to axe... >>> >>> I've started a Wiki page with such a list here: >>> >>> http://wiki.qemu-project.org/Features/LegacyRemoval >> >> It would be nice to get rid of the legacy -net option in 3.0.0. I hav= e >> added it and included pointers to loose ends. I think this is doable >> but will require some time to achieve. >=20 > Not sure whether we really can get rid of the -net option completely, > since AFAIK it is the only way to configure on-board NICs at the moment= , > and Paolo complains if he needs to type longer command lines > (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2015-12/msg02448.html). >=20 > But maybe we could get rid of the VLANs here at least, e.g. by matching= > "-net nic" and a following "-net user|bridge|tap|..." with an internal > netdev ID instead of creating a "VLAN" hub? >=20 > Or we could even turn the -net option into a full "convenience" option > instead (similar to "-hda" and friends), so that you even do not have t= o > specify "-net nic" anymore but create both, network source and sink wit= h > one "-net" statement, e.g.: >=20 > qemu-system-xxx -net user,model=3De1000,hostfwd=3D... >=20 > Just my 0.02 =E2=82=AC =2E.. and I forgot to mention: We should at least try to get rid of the options first that only work with -net (or rather the VLAN concept), like "-net dump", "-net channel", "-tftp", "-smb", "-bootp" and "-redir", since these will hinder us from doing further reworks / clean-ups in this area. I think I've mentioned them all on the Wiki page now, if somebody is aware of another legacy option here that does not work with "-netdev" yet (apart from -net nic itself), please let me know.= Thomas --vFUjMa5g23QviOQ22Bh9oMrP4rSKph0VF Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJY2Q8MAAoJEC7Z13T+cC21McoP/iTpnFXm1oObM0P5G/v69d8h zE7tLX7zxYW5jsLuodZyRzi0uokg6XibjJxI7liKbYZpE/QbH2puazjmNJPaUPng /5b6NnuDIqpEMGsGjqXBzAilQr/HGsf48JacjWEF9q6xiJz/MeJEC7uUyfthIZr5 T/bJk3yMSf8fLscLjxlRUu98RWvO68D1aUqu09xwI2cC0/0Sr8Q/sLemAjgumkrq wpY3udAge5IptUr0Fi6Ynq1qAnzs22t23AtTaqGi9YEiRSf/wh2CkD9a3SbogD+K BJ4lPZ7fzR1YOoDV+/9AVlXvaeSYOWb5C9E7xpNbMBx7eqoLfCd0Wx/q63k0rhQy vBHxRv8ZgoGMS0kuDr0CQOIGV8gNOObb/Y+veM2T2WDfhtJCiJvhTrntn5M/JtBt pw7oyVet2xXo9dqXpN3Cljg7lKYAXuRj7yBP2Fyj9RXZ9jkbeHCqmpejPs829vtD sYiWu6jf3xxpOyifo7EVjAlfxR8qK/e+eVFBfXkUUZtYp3WbemodlGxcKQ7TfA0T PuC4nGn7oPEtyQwSEvNDf1awaQwl+eGxIAQM1UsCGdmLVwVOLn9n54dyPoYFI2EZ 7s633jLJQ/ScTSd6VT/GPChb7Jg50chJaTUGfMyzc9cc2PklVe9WwJxrRHLQhUKg v6NDvAC7eZv4QuYfIby9 =VEKh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vFUjMa5g23QviOQ22Bh9oMrP4rSKph0VF--