All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Alex Elsayed <eternaleye@gmail.com>
To: linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] Preliminary BTRFS Encryption
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2016 07:13:45 +0000 (UTC)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <nriqf8$da6$2@blaine.gmane.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 20160917065831.GA14388@google.com

On Fri, 16 Sep 2016 23:58:31 -0700, Eric Biggers wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 09:39:46PM +0800, Anand Jain wrote:
>>
>> This patchset adds btrfs encryption support.
>>
>>
> Hi Anand,

<snip>

> Note: even better would be an authenticated encryption mode.  That isn't
> yet done by ext4 or f2fs --- I think because there wasn't a good place
> to store a per-page authentication tag.  It would be interesting to know
> whether this would be possible for btrfs.

IMO, this is already a flawed framing - in particular, if encrypting at 
the extent level, one _should not_ be encrypting (or authenticating) 
individual pages. The meaningful unit is the extent, and encrypting at 
page granularity puts you right back where dmcrypt is: dealing with fixed-
size space, and needing to find somewhere else to put the auth tag.

This is not a good place to be, and I strongly suspect it motivated 
choosing XTS in the first place - something I feel is an _error_ in the 
long run, and a dangerous one. (IMO, anything _but_ AEAD should be 
forbidden in FS-level encryption.)

In a nonce-misuse-resistent AEAD, there _is_ no auth tag: There's some 
amount of inherent ciphertext expansion, and the ciphertext _cannot be 
decrypted at all_ unless all of it is present. In essence, a built-in all-
or-nothing transform.

You could, potentially, chop off part of that and store it elsewhere, but 
now you're dealing with significant added complexity, for absolutely zero 
gain.

If you're _not_ using a nonce-misuse-resistant AEAD, it's even worse: 
keeping the tag out-of-band makes it far too easy to fail to verify it, 
or verify it only after decrypting the ciphertext to plaintext. Bluntly: 
that is an immediate security vulnerability.

tl;dr: Don't encrypt pages, encrypt extents. They grow a little for the 
auth tag, and that's fine.

Btrfs already handles needing to read the full extent in order to get a 
page out of it with compression, anyway.

<snip>



  reply	other threads:[~2016-09-17  7:14 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 66+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-09-13 13:39 [RFC] Preliminary BTRFS Encryption Anand Jain
2016-09-13 13:39 ` [PATCH] btrfs: Encryption: Add btrfs encryption support Anand Jain
2016-09-13 14:12   ` kbuild test robot
2016-09-13 14:24   ` kbuild test robot
2016-09-13 16:10   ` kbuild test robot
2016-09-13 13:39 ` [PATCH 1/2] btrfs-progs: make wait_for_commit non static Anand Jain
2016-09-13 13:39 ` [PATCH 2/2] btrfs-progs: add encryption support Anand Jain
2016-09-13 13:39 ` [PATCH] fstests: btrfs: support encryption Anand Jain
2016-09-13 16:42 ` [RFC] Preliminary BTRFS Encryption Wilson Meier
2016-09-14  7:02   ` Anand Jain
2016-09-14 18:26     ` Wilson Meier
2016-09-15  4:53 ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-15 11:33   ` Anand Jain
2016-09-15 11:47     ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-16 11:35       ` Anand Jain
2016-09-15  5:38 ` Chris Murphy
2016-09-15 11:32   ` Anand Jain
2016-09-15 11:37 ` Austin S. Hemmelgarn
2016-09-15 14:06   ` Anand Jain
2016-09-15 14:24     ` Austin S. Hemmelgarn
2016-09-16  8:58       ` David Sterba
2016-09-17  2:18       ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-16  1:12 ` Dave Chinner
2016-09-16  5:47   ` Roman Mamedov
2016-09-16  6:49   ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-17  4:38     ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-17  6:37       ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-19 18:08         ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-19 20:01           ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-19 22:22             ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-19 22:25             ` Chris Murphy
2016-09-19 22:31               ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-20  1:10                 ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-17 18:45       ` David Sterba
2016-09-20 14:26         ` Anand Jain
2016-09-16 10:45   ` Brendan Hide
2016-09-16 11:46   ` Anand Jain
2016-09-16  8:49 ` David Sterba
2016-09-16 11:56   ` Anand Jain
2016-09-17 20:35     ` David Sterba
2016-09-18  8:34       ` RAID1 availability issue[2], Hot-spare and auto-replace Anand Jain
2016-09-18 17:28         ` Chris Murphy
2016-09-18 17:34           ` Chris Murphy
2016-09-19  2:25           ` Anand Jain
2016-09-19 12:07             ` Austin S. Hemmelgarn
2016-09-19 12:25           ` Austin S. Hemmelgarn
2016-09-18  9:54       ` [RFC] Preliminary BTRFS Encryption Anand Jain
2016-09-20  0:12   ` Chris Mason
2016-09-20  0:55     ` Anand Jain
2016-09-17  6:58 ` Eric Biggers
2016-09-17  7:13   ` Alex Elsayed [this message]
2016-09-19 18:57     ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-19 19:50       ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-19 22:12         ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-17 16:12   ` Anand Jain
2016-09-17 18:57     ` Chris Murphy
2016-09-19 15:15 ` Experimental btrfs encryption Theodore Ts'o
2016-09-19 20:58   ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-20  0:32     ` Chris Mason
2016-09-20  2:47       ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-20  2:50       ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-09-20  3:05         ` Alex Elsayed
2016-09-20  4:09         ` Zygo Blaxell
2016-09-20 15:44         ` Chris Mason
2016-09-21 13:52           ` Anand Jain
2016-09-20  4:05   ` Anand Jain

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='nriqf8$da6$2@blaine.gmane.org' \
    --to=eternaleye@gmail.com \
    --cc=linux-btrfs@vger.kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.