From: Derrick Stolee <stolee@gmail.com>
To: "Junio C Hamano" <gitster@pobox.com>,
"Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason" <avarab@gmail.com>
Cc: "brian m. carlson" <sandals@crustytoothpaste.net>,
Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget <gitgitgadget@gmail.com>,
git@vger.kernel.org, jrnieder@gmail.com, emilyshaffer@google.com,
Andrei Rybak <rybak.a.v@gmail.com>,
Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com>,
Robert Karszniewicz <avoidr@posteo.de>, Jeff King <peff@peff.net>,
"Kerry, Richard" <richard.kerry@atos.net>,
Derrick Stolee <derrickstolee@github.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate
Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:36:26 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <ffdd4b33-65b2-de66-165a-84d2ce6f2fce@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <xmqqzgvrvf5g.fsf@gitster.g>
On 6/15/2021 2:02 AM, Junio C Hamano wrote:
> Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason <avarab@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Or, if we just fix these existing occurrences as a one-off there'll be
>> no existing examples of it in-tree, and as people tend to imitate
>> existing documentation they're unlikely to introduce new
>> occurrences.
>
> I suspect that may be a bit too optimistic. It is too easy to
> discuss interaction among users and introduce pronouns to refer to
> them, and when it happens, it is far easier to have a document to
> point at and tell them why we want them to rephrase if not how
> exactly. For that reason, I'd prefer to have some word about the
> desire to make examples and explanations gender-neutral in the
> guidelines. The mechanics we recommend to achieve the goal does not
> have to be specified if we want brevity---that can be learned by
> imitating existing practices.
Thanks. This was the whole intention of this series: to land on
a policy that improves our understanding of gendered pronouns
and be able to point to it when the situation arises again, even
if that is a rare occasion.
While my initial recommendation wasn't accepted, I'm glad we are
coming to an agreement.
>> If and when Felipe's <20210611202819.47077-1-felipe.contreras@gmail.com>
>> is applied how small is the diff you'll still have rebased on top of
>> that?
>
> I just retried a "competing" merge that got ugly ;-)
>
> Between Derrick's two "singular they" patches (one for comments, the
> other for docs) and Felipe's two patches (the same split), they
> touch identical base text. Only the way they neuter the description
> is different, and to me the latter feels a bit more ESL friendly.
>
> So, the main things that are missing from Felipe's version that we
> may want to build on top before the whole discussion can be
> concluded are:
>
> - Derrick's "typofix" patch, but if I recall correctly it needed a
> fix-up in one of its hunks?
>
> - Guidelines; you had a more generic readability tips that would
> (incidentally) result in nudging the writers to be more gender
> neutral, which I think is going in the right direction, but I do
> prefer to see an explicit mention of gender-neutrality as one
> bullet item.
I will send a v3 soon with Felipe's two patches, a fixed typo patch,
and a new set of guidelines.
Thanks,
-Stolee
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-15 13:36 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 124+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-06-07 16:57 [PATCH 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-07 16:57 ` [PATCH 1/4] Documentation: use singular they " Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-07 17:09 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-07 17:32 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-07 17:42 ` Andrei Rybak
2021-06-07 18:21 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-10 7:44 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-10 14:35 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-07 21:36 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 18:47 ` Phillip Susi
2021-06-09 20:26 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-11 15:40 ` Phillip Susi
2021-06-11 17:03 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-10 18:30 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-11 0:16 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-11 16:00 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-12 14:02 ` Phillip Susi
2021-06-08 1:18 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-08 8:51 ` Kerry, Richard
2021-06-08 23:21 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-09 13:13 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-10 3:11 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-08 17:33 ` Emily Shaffer
2021-06-08 18:03 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:44 ` Kerry, Richard
2021-06-09 17:44 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-25 14:30 ` Kerry, Richard
2021-06-09 4:48 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-10 8:18 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-10 14:42 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-14 22:10 ` Robert Karszniewicz
2021-06-07 16:57 ` [PATCH 2/4] *: use singular they in comments Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-07 17:12 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-07 17:20 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-10 8:20 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-07 19:02 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-07 21:44 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-08 17:36 ` Emily Shaffer
2021-06-07 16:57 ` [PATCH 3/4] *: fix typos Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-08 17:37 ` Emily Shaffer
2021-06-10 8:36 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-10 19:53 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-11 9:55 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-07 16:57 ` [PATCH 4/4] CodingGuidelines: recommend singular they Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-07 18:31 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-08 1:47 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-07 18:56 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-07 19:05 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-08 0:05 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-10 21:34 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-10 8:39 ` Johannes Schindelin
2021-06-07 20:00 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 18:29 ` Phillip Susi
2021-06-09 20:18 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-07 20:20 ` Robert Karszniewicz
2021-06-07 22:18 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-08 7:10 ` Jeff King
2021-06-08 8:11 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:23 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-09 15:20 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-10 22:06 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-11 16:11 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-08 17:39 ` Emily Shaffer
2021-06-09 4:44 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-09 13:27 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-07 20:10 ` [PATCH 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 " Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 1/4] Documentation: use singular they " Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 15:33 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 2/4] *: use singular they in comments Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 15:41 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 3/4] *: fix typos Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 13:54 ` [PATCH v2 4/4] CodingGuidelines: recommend singular they Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-09 15:50 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-09 15:44 ` [PATCH v2 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-09 17:22 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-10 2:03 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-10 2:28 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-10 3:30 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-10 22:32 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-10 22:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-11 16:32 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-11 17:18 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-11 20:38 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-13 7:17 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-15 6:02 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-15 13:36 ` Derrick Stolee [this message]
2021-06-15 17:03 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-14 0:47 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 0/4] Avoid gendered pronouns Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 1/4] doc: avoid using the gender of other people Felipe Contreras via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 2/4] comments: avoid using the gender of our users Felipe Contreras via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 3/4] *: fix typos Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 14:11 ` [PATCH v3 4/4] CodingGuidelines: recommend singular they Derrick Stolee via GitGitGadget
2021-06-15 16:19 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-15 17:26 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-16 2:47 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-16 5:06 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-16 9:26 ` Bagas Sanjaya
2021-06-16 17:44 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-16 19:54 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-16 23:22 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 0:09 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-17 13:22 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-17 14:53 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-17 17:06 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 15:25 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-18 0:26 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-18 16:12 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 15:23 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 15:58 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-18 0:53 ` brian m. carlson
2021-06-18 7:24 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-18 16:40 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-19 7:03 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-28 22:32 ` Junio C Hamano
2021-06-29 1:31 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-29 1:53 ` Derrick Stolee
2021-06-29 12:29 ` Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
2021-06-17 15:12 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-17 14:46 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-15 17:08 ` Felipe Contreras
2021-06-12 4:40 ` [PATCH 0/4] Use singular "they" when appropriate Bagas Sanjaya
2021-06-12 14:19 ` Phillip Susi
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