From: Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@gmail.com>
To: Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net>
Cc: Joel Fernandes <joelaf@google.com>,
Barret Rhoden <brho@google.com>,
ksummit <ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org>,
Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
Jonathan Nieder <jrn@google.com>,
Tomasz Figa <tfiga@chromium.org>,
Han-Wen Nienhuys <hanwen@google.com>,
Theodore Tso <tytso@google.com>,
Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com>,
David Rientjes <rientjes@google.com>,
Dmitry Torokhov <dtor@chromium.org>
Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] Allowing something Change-Id (or something like it) in kernel commits
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2019 18:09:23 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190823010923.GC139536@dtor-ws> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAOesGMhOvjihHvncLaove80vr0qeOjtZ=HPLiMtSL+it84aGuQ@mail.gmail.com>
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 06:05:29PM -0700, Olof Johansson wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 5:45 PM Olof Johansson <olof@lixom.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 5:43 PM Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 8/22/19 5:30 PM, Olof Johansson wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 5:17 PM Linus Torvalds
> > > > <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 4:40 PM Doug Anderson <dianders@chromium.org> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The Linux kernel has always viewed these Change-Id tags as obnoxious
> > > >>> and useless spam. Anyone who accidentally leaves a Change-Id in their
> > > >>> patch when posting to the mailing list is told to please re-post their
> > > >>> patch without the Change-Id. In this email, I will attempt to argue
> > > >>> that the Linux kernel ought to relax this restriction and allow
> > > >>> (possibly even encourage) Change-Ids.
> > > >>
> > > >> No.
> > > >>
> > > >> Not without some ground rules.
> > > >>
> > > >>> To begin with, let me make sure we're on the same page about what
> > > >>> Change-Ids are. As I understand it:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> * A change ID is much alike a UUID. It is locally generated on a
> > > >>> developer's computer and is (in theory) unique across the universe.
> > > >>
> > > >> Completely irrelevant.
> > > >>
> > > >> The point of an UUID is not just that it's unique, but THAT YOU CAN
> > > >> LOOK SOMETHING UP USING IT!
> > > >>
> > > >> A "change ID" that I can't use to look anything up with is completely
> > > >> pointless and should be removed from kernel history.
> > > >>
> > > >> But if you have something unique that is actually useful for looking
> > > >> things up, then by all means. But it needs to be useful for
> > > >> _everybody_.
> > > >>
> > > >>> * When a developer keeps the same Change-Id across two patches they
> > > >>> are making the assertion that the two patches are either the same or
> > > >>> should be treated as two versions of the same logical change.
> > > >>
> > > >> .. and we have better ways to do that.
> > > >>
> > > >> For example, we are actively encouraging things like message ID's
> > > >> (which are _also_ a form of locally generated UUID, they just are more
> > > >> than the silly purely numerical one).
> > > >>
> > > >> That gives you the origin of something, but it also gives you the
> > > >> development history and context.
> > > >>
> > > >> But note that how when it comes to message ID's we encourage them in a
> > > >> form that actually also helps look that information up, ie the
> > > >> preferred form isn't just the message ID (although that exists), it's
> > > >> a link like
> > > >>
> > > >> Link: https://lore.kernel.org/r/20190723065733.4899-5-leon@kernel.org
> > > >>
> > > >> instead of
> > > >>
> > > >> Message-ID: 20190723065733.4899-5-leon@kernel.org
> > > >>
> > > >> even though technically they have just as much actual information in theory.
> > > >>
> > > >> Do you see people complaining about that kind of UUID? No. Because it
> > > >> gives useful information to the project, and when something happens,
> > > >> people can look things up and _use_ that kind of UUID.
> > > >
> > > > For the actual open projects, the answer to this might be relative
> > > > easy: Most gerrit instances can feed a mailing list with emails of
> > > > both the initial patch, and later comments.
> > > >
> > > > Said emails would obviously have a Message-ID, and if the list is
> > > > added to lore, it can be referenced there.
> > > >
> > > > Note, even if the Change-Id had a full URL, there would be no archival
> > > > guarantee in the same way as lore gives us, so that approach alone
> > > > isn't useful. A URL to a "forever" mailing list archive seems like the
> > > > most stable possible reference.
> > > >
> > > > This doesn't address the full issue Doug was looking to solve, which
> > > > is the reverse mapping of "posted patch" to "previous version of the
> > > > patch". Patchwork tries to guess this, but it's best effort. I don't
> > > > have a great answer to this, besides possibly in-reply-to threading
> > > > and associating back that way via the email trail.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Wouldn't a direct link to the Gerrit instance solve the problem ?
> > > After all,
> > >
> > > Link: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromiumos/third_party/kernel/+/1759334
> > >
> > > points to the same Gerrit entry as
> > >
> > > Change-Id: I5a2e33424e7fb19fed13afb854ae6546ef9bfa35
> > >
> > > and there would be no need to look anything up.
> >
> > Nope, for the same reason I already mentioned: In 2 years when Google
> > deprecates Chromium and EOL's the product and project (see: Reader,
> > Google+, Youtube messaging), there will be no way to get to the
> > history. (I know, unlikely in this case, but URLs move without
> > redirects, etc).
> >
> > Lore solves that, since it's externally archived.
>
> Actually, it seems like the outgoing email already has suitable headers.
>
> I looked up a random review, and viewed raw message:
>
> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!original/chromium-os-reviews/Y2R_LLKytQw/M0TRRzfoAgAJ
>
> X-Gerrit-Change-Id: I50d72612569743198825afdf41200c15db759076
> X-Gerrit-Change-Number: 1762035
> X-Gerrit-ChangeURL:
> <https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromiumos/third_party/kernel/+/1762035>
> X-Gerrit-Commit: 5b7dff2b2cb0b1a8769a53d59e387772ae569243
>
> Since that would be captured in a mail archive, you could easily get
> it from there if needed.
>
> Based on this, there's no reason to use opaque Change-Id, all the
> functionality needed can be reached through the mail URLs we already
> agreed are reasonable to use.
>
>
> (Someone should maybe tell Hao that he has the email address
> misspelled in his S-o-b).
This is however Gerrit-specific and I do not believe that Doug is
proposing to tie it all to Gerrit. I should be able to stick Change-Id
or tag we settle upon onto my outgoing patches and have it there without
any Gerrit involvement.
Thanks.
--
Dmitry
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-08-23 1:09 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-08-22 23:39 [Ksummit-discuss] Allowing something Change-Id (or something like it) in kernel commits Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 0:03 ` Brendan Higgins
2019-08-23 0:17 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23 0:30 ` Olof Johansson
2019-08-23 0:43 ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-23 0:45 ` Olof Johansson
2019-08-23 1:05 ` Olof Johansson
2019-08-23 1:09 ` Dmitry Torokhov [this message]
2019-08-23 1:36 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-23 2:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23 3:03 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-23 13:15 ` Sean Paul
2019-08-23 15:18 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-23 15:31 ` Sean Paul
2019-08-23 15:48 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 16:19 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23 16:35 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 16:45 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:54 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 18:00 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 19:08 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 19:15 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-23 19:23 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 19:31 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-24 16:53 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:46 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23 19:17 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 19:38 ` Laurent Pinchart
2019-08-23 21:15 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 21:25 ` Mark Brown
2019-08-24 23:13 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-25 7:09 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 22:05 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28 8:50 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 20:02 ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-24 16:34 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-24 18:11 ` Linus Torvalds
2019-08-24 23:04 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-25 3:11 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 10:51 ` Mark Brown
2019-09-09 8:14 ` Michael Ellerman
2019-09-09 12:09 ` Mark Brown
2019-08-26 17:13 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 17:30 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-26 21:35 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 21:51 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 22:06 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 22:19 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-26 23:02 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-26 23:11 ` Doug Anderson
2019-09-16 14:11 ` Christian Brauner
2019-09-16 17:43 ` Al Viro
2019-09-16 18:05 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-26 23:43 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28 12:34 ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-27 0:29 ` Dmitry Vyukov
2019-08-27 6:06 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 13:24 ` Dmitry Vyukov
2019-08-27 13:48 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 14:01 ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-27 14:09 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 15:33 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 15:42 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 18:55 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2019-08-27 19:53 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-27 21:34 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-27 21:38 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-28 9:08 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-28 9:25 ` Jani Nikula
2019-08-28 10:04 ` Martin K. Petersen
2019-08-28 10:53 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-28 12:46 ` Martin K. Petersen
2019-08-28 10:42 ` Mark Brown
2019-08-28 11:41 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2019-08-28 12:22 ` Christian Brauner
2019-08-28 12:38 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-08-28 13:58 ` Theodore Y. Ts'o
2019-08-28 20:39 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-28 20:46 ` Johannes Berg
2019-08-28 21:00 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-28 22:15 ` Rob Herring
2019-08-27 17:34 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2019-08-27 18:50 ` Guenter Roeck
2019-08-27 14:06 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 7:33 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2019-08-27 13:30 ` Dmitry Vyukov
2019-08-27 14:28 ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-27 15:06 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-27 15:25 ` Paul E. McKenney
2019-08-28 8:57 ` Dan Carpenter
2019-08-23 15:49 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 15:54 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 15:59 ` Thomas Gleixner
2019-08-23 16:38 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 16:50 ` Andrew Lunn
2019-08-23 17:50 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 18:10 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2019-08-26 22:19 ` Paul Mackerras
2019-08-27 7:02 ` Stephen Rothwell
2019-08-23 9:09 ` Vlastimil Babka
2019-08-23 12:48 ` Bhaskar Chowdhury
2019-08-23 1:01 ` Dmitry Torokhov
2019-08-23 1:07 ` Doug Anderson
2019-08-23 1:18 ` Joel Fernandes
2019-09-05 8:12 ` Eric Wong
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