From: Shuah Khan <skhan@linuxfoundation.org>
To: Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>
Cc: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org>,
"Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult" <lkml@metux.net>,
David Hildenbrand <david@redhat.com>,
James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@hansenpartnership.com>,
Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>, Christoph Lameter <cl@gentwo.de>,
Theodore Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu>, Jiri Kosina <jikos@kernel.org>,
ksummit@lists.linux.dev, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-block@vger.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
linux-mm@kvack.org, netdev@vger.kernel.org,
linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org,
Shuah Khan <skhan@linuxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: Maintainers / Kernel Summit 2021 planning kick-off
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:57:11 -0600 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <66fce207-2602-6452-9216-01ebde656bcd@linuxfoundation.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <3bfbe45c-2356-6db0-e1b8-11b7e37ae858@linuxfoundation.org>
On 6/22/21 5:33 PM, Shuah Khan wrote:
> On 6/22/21 4:59 PM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
>> Hi Shuah,
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 04:33:22PM -0600, Shuah Khan wrote:
>>> On 6/18/21 7:46 AM, Laurent Pinchart wrote:
>>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 01:55:23PM -0600, Shuah Khan wrote:
>>>>> On 6/10/21 1:26 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 10 Jun 2021 21:39:49 +0300 Laurent Pinchart wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There will always be more informal discussions between on-site
>>>>>>> participants. After all, this is one of the benefits of
>>>>>>> conferences, by
>>>>>>> being all together we can easily organize ad-hoc discussions.
>>>>>>> This is
>>>>>>> traditionally done by finding a not too noisy corner in the
>>>>>>> conference
>>>>>>> center, would it be useful to have more break-out rooms with A/V
>>>>>>> equipment than usual ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been giving this quite some thought too, and I've come to the
>>>>>> understanding (and sure I can be wrong, but I don't think that I am),
>>>>>> is that when doing a hybrid event, the remote people will always be
>>>>>> "second class citizens" with respect to the communication that is
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> on. Saying that we can make it the same is not going to happen unless
>>>>>> you start restricting what people can do that are present, and that
>>>>>> will just destroy the conference IMO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, I think we should add more to make the communication
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> for those that are not present. Maybe an idea is to have break outs
>>>>>> followed by the presentation and evening events that include remote
>>>>>> attendees to discuss with those that are there about what they might
>>>>>> have missed. Have incentives at these break outs (free stacks and
>>>>>> beer?) to encourage the live attendees to attend and have a
>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>> with the remote attendees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The presentations would have remote access, where remote attendees
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> at the very least write in some chat their questions or comments. If
>>>>>> video and connectivity is good enough, perhaps have a screen where
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> can show up and talk, but that may have logistical limitations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are absolutely right that the remote people will have a hard time
>>>>> participating and keeping up with in-person participants. I have a
>>>>> couple of ideas on how we might be able to improve remote experience
>>>>> without restricting in-person experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Have one or two moderators per session to watch chat and Q&A to
>>>>> enable
>>>>> remote participants to chime in and participate.
>>>>> - Moderators can make sure remote participation doesn't go
>>>>> unnoticed and
>>>>> enable taking turns for remote vs. people participating in
>>>>> person.
>>>>>
>>>>> It will be change in the way we interact in all in-person sessions for
>>>>> sure, however it might enhance the experience for remote attendees.
>>>>
>>>> A moderator to watch online chat and relay questions is I believe very
>>>> good for presentations, it's hard for a presenter to keep an eye on a
>>>> screen while having to manage the interaction with the audience in the
>>>> room (there's the usual joke of the difference between an introvert and
>>>> an extrovert open-source developer is that the extrovert looks at
>>>> *your*
>>>> shoes when talking to you, but in many presentations the speaker
>>>> nowadays does a fairly good job as watching the audience, at least from
>>>> time to time :-)).
>>>>
>>>> For workshop or brainstorming types of sessions, the highest barrier to
>>>> participation for remote attendees is local attendees not speaking in
>>>> microphones. That's the number one rule that moderators would need to
>>>> enforce, I think all the rest depends on it. This may require a larger
>>>> number of microphones in the room than usual.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely. Moderator has to make sure the following things happen for
>>> this to be effective:
>>>
>>> - Watch chat and Q&A, Raise hand from remote participants
>>> - Enforce some kind of taking turns to allow fairness in
>>> participation
>>> - Have the speaker repeat questions asked in the room (we do that now
>>> in some talks - both remote and in-person - chat and Q&A needs
>>> reading out for recording)
>>> - Explore live Transcription features available in the virtual conf.
>>> platform. You still need humans watching the transcription.
>>> - Have a running session notes combined with transcription.
>>>
>>> Any of these options aren't sustainable when large number of people
>>> are participating remotely or in-person. In general a small number of
>>> people participate either in person or remote in any case, based on
>>> my observation in remote and in-person settings.
>>>
>>> Maybe we can experiment with one or two workshops this time around
>>> and see how it works out. If we can figure an effective way, it would
>>> be beneficial for people that can't travel for one reason or the
>>> other.
>>
>> Can we nominate moderators ahead of time ? For workshop-style
>> discussions, they need to be a person who won't participate actively in
>> the discussions, as it's impossible to both contribute and moderate at
>> the same time.
>>
>
> Correct. It will be impossible to participate and moderate in workshop
> setting. We have to ask for volunteers and nominate moderators ahead of
> time.
>
Subsystems could seek volunteers from other subsystems perhaps ...
thanks,
-- Shuah
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-06-22 23:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-04-19 15:28 Maintainers / Kernel Summit 2021 planning kick-off Theodore Ts'o
2021-04-28 10:29 ` Jiri Kosina
2021-04-30 21:48 ` Theodore Ts'o
2021-05-27 13:23 ` Christoph Lameter
2021-05-27 13:29 ` Greg KH
2021-05-28 14:58 ` James Bottomley
2021-05-28 15:11 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-05-28 15:27 ` James Bottomley
2021-05-28 15:31 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-05-28 15:44 ` James Bottomley
2021-05-28 15:55 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-05-28 16:04 ` James Bottomley
2021-05-28 16:31 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-05-28 15:42 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2021-06-09 10:37 ` David Hildenbrand
2021-06-09 19:23 ` James Bottomley
2021-06-11 10:58 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-10 18:07 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-10 18:23 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-06-10 18:39 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-06-10 19:26 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-10 19:55 ` Shuah Khan
2021-06-10 20:02 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-10 20:20 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-06-10 20:31 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-10 22:43 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2021-06-11 2:59 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-06-11 9:13 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-06-11 9:51 ` Willy Tarreau
2021-06-18 13:46 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-06-18 14:11 ` James Bottomley
2021-06-18 14:17 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-18 14:28 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-06-18 14:32 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-18 14:45 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-06-18 14:58 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-06-18 15:14 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-06-18 15:23 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-18 15:29 ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2021-06-18 15:34 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-18 15:36 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-18 16:33 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-06-18 15:58 ` Mark Brown
2021-06-18 16:45 ` Mauro Carvalho Chehab
2021-06-18 14:46 ` James Bottomley
2021-06-22 22:33 ` Shuah Khan
2021-06-22 22:59 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-06-22 23:33 ` Shuah Khan
2021-06-22 23:57 ` Shuah Khan [this message]
2021-06-23 0:06 ` Laurent Pinchart
2021-06-23 0:15 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-10 20:12 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-06-10 18:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-06-18 13:34 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-18 14:08 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-06-11 11:10 ` David Howells
2021-06-15 18:23 ` Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
2021-06-15 18:30 ` Matthew Wilcox
2021-06-15 18:34 ` Konstantin Ryabitsev
2021-06-15 18:40 ` Laurent Pinchart
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