From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_HIGH,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE47C433E0 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 09:27:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36BF320747 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 09:27:11 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="gTpmqeAD" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 36BF320747 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=infradead.org Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:From:Date:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=oXWq65RzPWXQ1R3ShnRiltQG7ZCpUcZg6TEcma8iU80=; b=gTpmqeADKQy0XoXTHTgqSnNK7 CDJWvhLPxOl/NxeVsTuVyuwfXsMoO6jLq/kYESyjJ3Nhdeqkgg5fd7GMD/BA5hYr3ZyKQKoeSrOyf WRIotlQXYATuB7jPkBfjzV3cPuMe0zNXIUVPDfNjAbqd8ncdYQ6x7RR4BI+B5mq8MJP5qGCGQlfm2 rb6HCv9WRzjw5zPBbFwvcGkE84+F8Ue8/V70cLUiRIW9XPhDyoWNHzM6+6UtuB4HuoTZHzP1DQDnJ /1jTVtSKgAXceyRhq83ZihuzqI3isqGxKHXUFz/L+7Pjf2TX1+aXLZjNmSARc1lrM6VPqzhabKmtC useGw8phw==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1jqYzs-0003HO-JG; Wed, 01 Jul 2020 09:25:40 +0000 Received: from j217100.upc-j.chello.nl ([24.132.217.100] helo=noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtpsa (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1jqYle-0002ST-A3; Wed, 01 Jul 2020 09:10:58 +0000 Received: from hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net (hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net [192.168.1.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by noisy.programming.kicks-ass.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33CD9305B23; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 11:10:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: by hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 170A4201CB82C; Wed, 1 Jul 2020 11:10:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2020 11:10:54 +0200 From: Peter Zijlstra To: "Paul E. McKenney" Subject: Re: [PATCH 00/22] add support for Clang LTO Message-ID: <20200701091054.GW4781@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> References: <20200624203200.78870-1-samitolvanen@google.com> <20200624211540.GS4817@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200625080313.GY4817@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200625082433.GC117543@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200625085745.GD117543@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200630191931.GA884155@elver.google.com> <20200630201243.GD4817@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> <20200630203016.GI9247@paulmck-ThinkPad-P72> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200630203016.GI9247@paulmck-ThinkPad-P72> X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: linux-arch , Marco Elver , "maintainer:X86 ARCHITECTURE \(32-BIT AND 64-BIT\)" , Kees Cook , Kernel Hardening , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Masahiro Yamada , Linux Kbuild mailing list , Nick Desaulniers , LKML , clang-built-linux , Sami Tolvanen , linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, Will Deacon , Linux ARM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 01:30:16PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 10:12:43PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote: > > I'm not convinced C11 memory_order_consume would actually work for us, > > even if it would work. That is, given: > > > > https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20150520005510.GA23559@linux.vnet.ibm.com/ > > > > only pointers can have consume, but like I pointed out, we have code > > that relies on dependent loads from integers. > > I agree that C11 memory_order_consume is not normally what we want, > given that it is universally promoted to memory_order_acquire. > > However, dependent loads from integers are, if anything, more difficult > to defend from the compiler than are control dependencies. This applies > doubly to integers that are used to index two-element arrays, in which > case you are just asking the compiler to destroy your dependent loads > by converting them into control dependencies. Yes, I'm aware. However, as you might know, I'm firmly in the 'C is a glorified assembler' camp (as I expect most actual OS people are, out of necessity if nothing else) and if I wanted a control dependency I would've bloody well written one. I think an optimizing compiler is awesome, but only in so far as that optimization is actually helpful -- and yes, I just stepped into a giant twilight zone there. That is, any optimization that has _any_ controversy should be controllable (like -fno-strict-overflow -fno-strict-aliasing) and I'd very much like the same here. In a larger context, I still think that eliminating speculative stores is both necessary and sufficient to avoid out-of-thin-air. So I'd also love to get some control on that. _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel