From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_HIGH,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6E87C55192 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:52:51 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-2.mimecast.com [207.211.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E2FA20728 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:52:51 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="LJVz2XU6" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 8E2FA20728 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=paul-moore.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=linux-audit-bounces@redhat.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1587649970; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=tC3nTB1O5SA3cbqSfDoGpYm4WIrgAaBsfQko5H1qzkM=; b=LJVz2XU6T3YOncSbj725GC4th77gZiEhJca3MwZUcWEm+GV16Jhj9QJi6+F/76ciXzrzzO FVk3hhvMJ+iPtjopwcVYiSVA6GlY84iiCiUTji3jJWxJwSytac3K4SAwe8KtaGGFw7rMBF tuuZn6iGMkIvcd4Df+w5AMXgVX/YWk8= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-191--QYBBt4INvux8GiJaSIZug-1; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:52:48 -0400 X-MC-Unique: -QYBBt4INvux8GiJaSIZug-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4E89461; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:52:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (colo-mx01.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.20]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 121CD5D9CC; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:52:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.19.33]) by colo-mx.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E1D1809542; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:52:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx06.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.16]) by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 03NDqcdK004192 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:52:38 -0400 Received: by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) id 0B8EB5C1C8; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:52:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast02.extmail.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.110.51]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05BA05C1BD for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:52:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com [205.139.110.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2988A107ACCA for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 13:52:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ej1-f43.google.com (mail-ej1-f43.google.com [209.85.218.43]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-380-ALSylojJPnSeSCCC8kas3w-1; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:50:24 -0400 X-MC-Unique: ALSylojJPnSeSCCC8kas3w-1 Received: by mail-ej1-f43.google.com with SMTP id re23so4753424ejb.4 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 06:50:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=XbLAaiUQmIozWxqcI0ik9TtpFAO3oAawXG77Db9uHds=; b=TQESt3j+vMZmDe34dmi6ktAkZAaObft/zuyS1mjHaZFdI/SR+COX8gajCczllE7yyo s4+oFc9kNWTg2er8ZtNZgqjr8alT0Eok1y/EU311TNEiS4ob8KMGXWc3+UZ1ZAJ4ftbv 0mEnh2Z2J7LXtA8zz/16ttt0KvbcCklkcqhN5HlmYQBv1s8ZTwq6D7jYghPALvchU7Gb vARYUO1e86m34QvpuE2QW2m+PPYHv0gSPcZEZ+yyG5KDo4lJ4vDVBIhQKrXTEwPPFb8Z 3mQcJcf5lJNiExYMBe4skDiB05hXlfnSqB9uhVkN14lwjBpRAfaISfKUpUkltoOu2v6w Nm4Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYRTHHnGeRMCLDH85BeSV9iLSlnJcBSpGrsKZVlWB1K+Al4JbO3 PNY7871i9thACmls5Osjp4yXHFRfeVyyLe6PCzF5 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKcxhnzaNMZL9kHmnqWBnLw6IfIVugZBok4T3oHHjV2+bjXkyVZDcNZZSTr87lGzloQPVNw351FQFzZVEIKmuA= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:d7a2:: with SMTP id pk2mr2876227ejb.272.1587649823327; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 06:50:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200414092740.2fdf0f78@xantho> <20200415155355.qudqepcvvler55xs@madcap2.tricolour.ca> <20200416120612.GA52165@gardel-login> <20200423073021.GA62700@gardel-login> In-Reply-To: <20200423073021.GA62700@gardel-login> From: Paul Moore Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:50:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: multicast listeners and audit events to kmsg To: Lennart Poettering X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.16 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com id 03NDqcdK004192 X-loop: linux-audit@redhat.com Cc: Richard Guy Briggs , linux-audit@redhat.com X-BeenThere: linux-audit@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk List-Id: Linux Audit Discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: linux-audit-bounces@redhat.com Errors-To: linux-audit-bounces@redhat.com X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.14 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:30 AM Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mi, 22.04.20 17:59, Paul Moore (paul@paul-moore.com) wrote: > > > In systemd we just think that audit information is pretty interesting > > > even if you don't want to buy into the whole government regulation > > > stuff, even if you don't want the auditd to run, and the full audit > > > package installed. i.e. we want to collect the data as one of our > > > various data streams, as a secondary consumer of it, and leave it to > > > the audit package itself to do everything else and be the primary > > > consumer of it. > > > > > > Using the multicast group is our way of saying: "we don't want to own > > > the audit stream, you can keep it; we just want to have a look > > > too". > > > > The problem is that on systems without a running audit daemon there is > > no one to "own" the audit stream so it floods the kmsg, spills onto > > the console, and everyone's feet get wet. Are we going to blame the > > source of the stream, or the person who turned on the tap in the first > > place and caused the mess? > > It's not a question of blaming anyone. We are just looking for a nice > way so that we can get the mcast stuff without the kmsg stuff. it can > totally be something we toggle explicitly, i have no problem with > that. > > > If systemd enables the audit stream, and doesn't want the stream to > > flood kmsg, it needs to make sure that the stream is directed to a > > suitable sink, be it auditd or some other daemon. > > This sounds as if journald should start using the unicast stream. This > basically means auditd is out of the game, and cannot be added in > anymore, because the unicast stream is then owned by journald. It > wouldn't be sufficient to just install the audit package to get > classic audit working anymore. You'd have to reconfigure everything. > > I mean, we try to be non-intrusive, not step into your territory too > much, not replace auditd, not kick auditd out of the game. But you are > basically telling us to do just that? My recommendation is that if you are going to enable audit you should also ensure that auditd is running; that is what I'm telling you. -- paul moore www.paul-moore.com -- Linux-audit mailing list Linux-audit@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-audit