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From: Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com>
To: keescook@chromium.org
Cc: casey@schaufler-ca.com, linux-security-module@vger.kernel.org,
	James Morris <jmorris@namei.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, selinux@tycho.nsa.gov,
	john.johansen@canonical.com, penguin-kernel@i-love.sakura.ne.jp,
	Stephen Smalley <sds@tycho.nsa.gov>,
	linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, adobriyan@gmail.com,
	casey.schaufler@intel.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 10/10] LSM: Blob sharing support for S.A.R.A and LandLock
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 22:42:59 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAHC9VhRXOuGqSw9yu18QZeA1z+vYwLFixTqEJ1WyBBFCeLebuA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGXu5jLapViSK-j08Tq8cCZodiZXFsXze71xFPg6MQhDWDHDAA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 5:52 PM Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Paul Moore <paul@paul-moore.com> wrote:
> > The infrastructure bits aren't really my concern; in fact I *like*
> > that the infrastructure is always exercised, it makes
> > testing/debugging easier.  I also like the ability to limit the
> > user/admin to one LSM at boot time to make support easier; my goal is
> > to allow a distro to build support for multiple LSMs without also
> > requiring that distro to support *stacked* LSMs
>
> I see your point, but as soon as SARA and Landlock appear, they'll have:
>
>     depends on SECURITY_STACKING
>
> and then all distros will enable it and there will be no sensible
> runtime way to manage it. If, instead, we make it entirely runtime
> now, then a CONFIG can control the default state and we can provide
> guidance to how SARA and Landlock should expose their "enable"ness.

I question why SARA and LandLock require stacking.  While some LSMs
may benefit from stacking, e.g. Yama, traditionally each LSM has been
able to stand on its own.  I think this is a quality that should be
preserved.

> > (see my earlier
> > comments about the difficulty in determining the source of a failed
> > operation).
>
> Agreed. I would hope that audit could help for that case. *stare at blue sky*

*also staring at blue sky*

Audit can help, but it is independent of the LSMs and not a hard
requirement for all, and even when it is enabled the config might not
be suitable to provide enough information to be helpful in this case.

-- 
paul moore
www.paul-moore.com

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-09-14  7:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 56+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-09-11 16:26 [PATCH v2 00/10] LSM: Module stacking in support of S.A.R.A and Landlock Casey Schaufler
2018-09-11 16:41 ` [PATCH 01/10] procfs: add smack subdir to attrs Casey Schaufler
2018-09-12 22:57   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:41 ` [PATCH 02/10] Smack: Abstract use of cred security blob Casey Schaufler
2018-09-12 23:04   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:41 ` [PATCH 03/10] SELinux: " Casey Schaufler
2018-09-12 23:10   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:41 ` [PATCH 04/10] LSM: Infrastructure management of the " Casey Schaufler
2018-09-12 23:53   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-13 19:01     ` Casey Schaufler
2018-09-13 21:12       ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:41 ` [PATCH 05/10] SELinux: Abstract use of file " Casey Schaufler
2018-09-12 23:54   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:42 ` [PATCH 06/10] LSM: Infrastructure management of the " Casey Schaufler
2018-09-13  0:00   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:42 ` [PATCH 07/10] SELinux: Abstract use of inode " Casey Schaufler
2018-09-13  0:23   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:42 ` [PATCH 08/10] Smack: " Casey Schaufler
2018-09-13  0:24   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:42 ` [PATCH 09/10] LSM: Infrastructure management of the inode security Casey Schaufler
2018-09-13  0:30   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-11 16:42 ` [PATCH 10/10] LSM: Blob sharing support for S.A.R.A and LandLock Casey Schaufler
2018-09-13  4:19   ` Kees Cook
2018-09-13 13:16     ` Paul Moore
2018-09-13 15:19       ` Kees Cook
2018-09-13 19:12         ` Paul Moore
2018-09-13 20:58           ` Jordan Glover
2018-09-13 21:50             ` Paul Moore
2018-09-13 22:04               ` Jordan Glover
2018-09-13 23:01               ` Casey Schaufler
2018-09-13 21:01           ` Kees Cook
2018-09-13 21:38             ` Paul Moore
2018-09-13 21:51               ` Kees Cook
2018-09-13 23:06                 ` Kees Cook
2018-09-13 23:32                   ` John Johansen
2018-09-13 23:51                     ` Kees Cook
2018-09-14  0:03                       ` Casey Schaufler
2018-09-14  0:06                         ` Kees Cook
2018-09-13 23:51                   ` Casey Schaufler
2018-09-13 23:57                     ` Kees Cook
2018-09-14  0:08                       ` Casey Schaufler
2018-09-14  0:19                         ` Kees Cook
2018-09-14 15:57                           ` Casey Schaufler
2018-09-14 20:05                             ` Kees Cook
2018-09-14 20:47                               ` Casey Schaufler
2018-09-14 18:18                         ` James Morris
2018-09-14 18:23                           ` John Johansen
2018-09-14  0:03                     ` Kees Cook
2018-09-14  2:42                 ` Paul Moore [this message]
2018-09-11 20:43 ` [PATCH v2 00/10] LSM: Module stacking in support of S.A.R.A and Landlock James Morris
2018-09-12 21:29 ` James Morris
2018-09-16 16:54   ` Salvatore Mesoraca
2018-09-16 17:25     ` Casey Schaufler
2018-09-16 17:45       ` Salvatore Mesoraca
2018-09-18  7:44   ` Mickaël Salaün
2018-09-18 15:23     ` Casey Schaufler

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