From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
From: Woody Wu <narkewoody@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 03:16:46 +0000
Subject: Re: Setup pppd over rs-485 point-to-point
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To: linux-ppp@vger.kernel.org

On 03/17/2017 08:05 PM, James Carlson wrote:
> On 03/16/17 23:18, Woody Wu wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I want to setup pppd to connect a Linux laptop to an embedded Linux
>> device. The Linux box connected to a rs-232 to rs485 converter, then the
>> convert connected via a two-wire rs-485 cable to the embedded Linux
>> device's rs-485 port.
> [...]
>> On the otherhand, I can make success with similar commands when two
>> devices connected with rs-232.  So I guess, this failure was because the
>> rs-485 is half-duplex.  But I searched google, people seemed say pppd
>> should work over a point-to-point rs-485 connection.  So I want to get
>> help from your experts.
>
> I see evidence of other problems in your trace as well.  The PC is
> receiving its own transmissions, which is very bad, and is the proximate
> cause of the failure.  It means that the converter device you're using
> has local echo enabled.  If there's some way to turn off local echo, you
> may get a little further.  Check the manufacturer's documentation for
> that converter.  This shouldn't happen:
>
> sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xb3a3da0c> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xb3a3da0c> <pcomp> <accomp>]

Thank you James.  I think the converter should be fine, without echo,
since I remembered before the ppp setup, I tested it with mimicom on
both devices and did not recognized any 'echo' behavior.  But I like to
double check it when I come to office next Monday.

>
> But even though that caused this failure, I don't think it's the root
> problem.  As another poster said, it's not going to work like this.
>
> Two-wire TIA-485 is indeed half-duplex.  There are protocols designed
> for use on it (MODBUS is one example), but right in the introduction to
> RFC 1661 (PPP), it says that you need full-duplex by design.
>
> I think it would be possible to make it work on a half-duplex link, but
> it wouldn't be simple or terribly efficient.  The two schemes I can
> imagine are:
>
>   - Use a master-slave type of relationship.  This means having one end
>     (perhaps the PC in this case) sending some sort of signal (I suggest
>     using back-to-back flags; two 0x7E in a row) to let the slave side
>     know it should send something if it has it, or to send an empty
>     packet.  The master then just periodically polls for data or sends
>     what it has.

Does this mean I hava to change the pppd source code or even the Linux
kernel?


>
>   - Use something like ALOHA or CSMA.  Both of these require some means
>     of knowing that your transmitted message has been garbled by a
>     collision so that you can back off and retry.  That might require
>     some electrical work on your part.
>