From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S264279AbTDWWoL (ORCPT ); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:44:11 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S264283AbTDWWoL (ORCPT ); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:44:11 -0400 Received: from almesberger.net ([63.105.73.239]:22534 "EHLO host.almesberger.net") by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S264279AbTDWWoI (ORCPT ); Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:44:08 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 19:55:50 -0300 From: Werner Almesberger To: "Martin J. Bligh" Cc: Matthias Schniedermeyer , Marc Giger , linux-kernel , pat@suwalski.net Subject: Re: [Bug 623] New: Volume not remembered. Message-ID: <20030423195550.E3557@almesberger.net> References: <21660000.1051114998@[10.10.2.4]> <20030423164558.GA12202@citd.de> <1508310000.1051116963@flay> <20030423183413.C1425@almesberger.net> <1560860000.1051133781@flay> <20030423191427.D3557@almesberger.net> <1570840000.1051136330@flay> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1570840000.1051136330@flay>; from mbligh@aracnet.com on Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 03:18:50PM -0700 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Martin J. Bligh wrote: > So if people want 0 volume for some reason, they can set *that* > in userspace. 1) the kernel default is applied before, possibly long before user space can provide its own value 2) the kernel itself doesn't use audio for any intentional interaction with the user when booting 3) there can be unintentional audio output, e.g. from a source that also has a non-zero default setting, or that starts in a random state 4) you'll run a user space utility to adjust the volume, probably before the user even gets a chance to do anything that would cause intentional audio output So, because of 4), your user space utility better gets it right, no matter what the kernel does. If it screws up, your user loses. 3) may yield unexpected noise. Given that the expected behaviour is silence (see 2), any sound at that point would be unexpected. Because of 1), the kernel default should be such that a value should be picked that has the least potential of causing unpleasant surprises before user space takes over. I don't quite see your point anyway. Because of 2), the only situations in which a non-zero default would do anything useful would be - if you add audio output when booting a regular kernel - if the user-space utility is absent, doesn't work properly, or fails completely (if it fails, there'll probably be larger obstacles than just adjusting the volume). Since for many users, installing a new kernel equals upgrading their distribution, fixes to any design errors in that user-space part shouldn't be harder to deploy than a kernel-side change. So are you planning to make the kernel sing a little song for us, while booting ? :-) (Now, for some constructive criticism: a user-space utility that checks if there is on-going audio output with the volume set very low, and pops up a wizard in such a case, might actually be helpful. Likewise, audio output without an application accessing the mixer may warrant a wizard.) - Werner -- _________________________________________________________________________ / Werner Almesberger, Buenos Aires, Argentina wa@almesberger.net / /_http://www.almesberger.net/____________________________________________/