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From: "George Spelvin" <linux@sciencehorizons.net>
To: Jason@zx2c4.com, linux@sciencehorizons.net
Cc: ak@linux.intel.com, davem@davemloft.net, David.Laight@aculab.com,
	djb@cr.yp.to, ebiggers3@gmail.com, hannes@stressinduktion.org,
	jeanphilippe.aumasson@gmail.com,
	kernel-hardening@lists.openwall.com,
	linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	luto@amacapital.net, netdev@vger.kernel.org, tom@herbertland.com,
	torvalds@linux-foundation.org, tytso@mit.edu,
	vegard.nossum@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF
Date: 16 Dec 2016 16:25:28 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20161216212528.26003.qmail@ns.sciencehorizons.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHmME9q0LaxQ3uinzWyD1mDCpyeLw_2TEAN33T6dDrTKCuHs7g@mail.gmail.com>

Jason A. Donenfeld wrote:
> I saw that jiffies addition in there and was wondering what it was all
> about. It's currently added _after_ the siphash input, not before, to
> keep with how the old algorithm worked. I'm not sure if this is
> correct or if there's something wrong with that, as I haven't studied
> how it works. If that jiffies should be part of the siphash input and
> not added to the result, please tell me. Otherwise I'll keep things
> how they are to avoid breaking something that seems to be working.

Oh, geez, I didn't realize you didn't understand this code.

Full details at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_sequence_prediction_attack

But yes, the sequence number is supposed to be (random base) + (timestamp).
In the old days before Canter & Siegel when the internet was a nice place,
people just used a counter that started at boot time.

But then someone observed that I can start a connection to host X,
see the sequence number it gives back to me, and thereby learn the
seauence number it's using on its connections to host Y.

And I can use that to inject forged data into an X-to-Y connection,
without ever seeing a single byte of the traffic!  (If I *can* observe
the traffic, of course, none of this makes the slightest difference.)

So the random base was made a keyed hash of the endpoint identifiers.
(Practically only the hosts matter, but generally the ports are thrown
in for good measure.)  That way, the ISN that host X sends to me
tells me nothing about the ISN it's using to talk to host Y.  Now the
only way to inject forged data into the X-to-Y connection is to
send 2^32 bytes, which is a little less practical.

  reply	other threads:[~2016-12-16 21:25 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 34+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2016-12-16 20:49 [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 21:25 ` George Spelvin [this message]
2016-12-16 21:31   ` [kernel-hardening] " Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 22:41     ` George Spelvin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2016-12-16 20:43 Jason A. Donenfeld
     [not found] <CAGiyFdfmiCMyHvAg=5sGh8KjBBrF0Wb4Qf=JLzJqUAx4yFSS3Q@mail.gmail.com>
2016-12-15 23:28 ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 17:06   ` David Laight
2016-12-16 17:09     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16  3:46 ` George Spelvin
     [not found]   ` <CAGiyFdd6_LVzUUfFcaqMyub1c2WPvWUzAQDCH+Aza-_t6mvmXg@mail.gmail.com>
2016-12-16 12:39     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 19:47       ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-16 20:41         ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 20:57           ` Tom Herbert
2016-12-17 15:21         ` George Spelvin
2016-12-19 14:14           ` David Laight
2016-12-19 18:10             ` George Spelvin
     [not found]       ` <CAGiyFddB_HT3H2yhYQ5rprYZ487rJ4iCaH9uPJQD57hiPbn9ng@mail.gmail.com>
2016-12-16 15:51         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 17:36           ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 18:00             ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 20:17               ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 20:43                 ` Theodore Ts'o
2016-12-16 22:13                   ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 22:15                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2016-12-16 22:18                     ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-16 23:44                       ` George Spelvin
2016-12-17  1:39                         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-17  2:15                           ` George Spelvin
2016-12-17 12:42           ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16 20:39         ` Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:29 [PATCH v5 0/4] The SipHash Patchset Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 20:30 ` [PATCH v5 1/4] siphash: add cryptographically secure PRF Jason A. Donenfeld
2016-12-15 22:42   ` George Spelvin
2016-12-16  2:14   ` kbuild test robot
2016-12-17 14:55   ` Jeffrey Walton
2016-12-19 17:08     ` Jason A. Donenfeld

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