From: "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
To: Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
Cc: Joel Fernandes <joelaf@google.com>, rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
Namhyung Kim <namhyung@kernel.org>,
Masami Hiramatsu <mhiramat@kernel.org>,
linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
linux-rt-users <linux-rt-users@vger.kernel.org>,
Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>,
Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
Tom Zanussi <tom.zanussi@linux.intel.com>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>, fweisbec <fweisbec@gmail.com>,
Randy Dunlap <rdunlap@infradead.org>,
kbuild test robot <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
baohong liu <baohong.liu@intel.com>,
vedang patel <vedang.patel@intel.com>,
kernel-team <kernel-team@lge.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC v4 3/4] irqflags: Avoid unnecessary calls to trace_ if you can
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:49:44 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180426154944.GF26088@linux.vnet.ibm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2099399401.1995.1524755596613.JavaMail.zimbra@efficios.com>
On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 11:13:16AM -0400, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> ----- On Apr 25, 2018, at 7:13 PM, Joel Fernandes joelaf@google.com wrote:
>
> > Hi Mathieu,
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Mathieu Desnoyers
> > <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> wrote:
> >> ----- On Apr 25, 2018, at 5:27 PM, Joel Fernandes joelaf@google.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 24, 2018 at 9:20 PM, Paul E. McKenney
> >>> <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:
> >>> [..]
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Sounds good, thanks.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Also I found the reason for my boot issue. It was because the
> >>>>> > init_srcu_struct in the prototype was being done in an initcall.
> >>>>> > Instead if I do it in start_kernel before the tracepoint is used, it
> >>>>> > fixes it (although I don't know if this is dangerous to do like this
> >>>>> > but I can get it to boot atleast.. Let me know if this isn't the
> >>>>> > right way to do it, or if something else could go wrong)
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > diff --git a/init/main.c b/init/main.c
> >>>>> > index 34823072ef9e..ecc88319c6da 100644
> >>>>> > --- a/init/main.c
> >>>>> > +++ b/init/main.c
> >>>>> > @@ -631,6 +631,7 @@ asmlinkage __visible void __init start_kernel(void)
> >>>>> > WARN(!irqs_disabled(), "Interrupts were enabled early\n");
> >>>>> > early_boot_irqs_disabled = false;
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > + init_srcu_struct(&tracepoint_srcu);
> >>>>> > lockdep_init_early();
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > local_irq_enable();
> >>>>> > --
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I benchmarked it and the performance also looks quite good compared
> >>>>> > to the rcu tracepoint version.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > If you, Paul and other think doing the init_srcu_struct like this
> >>>>> > should be Ok, then I can try to work more on your srcu prototype and
> >>>>> > roll into my series and post them in the next RFC series (or let me
> >>>>> > know if you wanted to work your srcu stuff in a separate series..).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That is definitely not what I was expecting, but let's see if it works
> >>>>> anyway... ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But first, I was instead expecting something like this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> DEFINE_SRCU(tracepoint_srcu);
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With this approach, some of the initialization happens at compile time
> >>>>> and the rest happens at the first call_srcu().
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This will work -only- if the first call_srcu() doesn't happen until after
> >>>>> workqueue_init_early() has been invoked. Which I believe must have been
> >>>>> the case in your testing, because otherwise it looks like __call_srcu()
> >>>>> would have complained bitterly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On the other hand, if you need to invoke call_srcu() before the call
> >>>>> to workqueue_init_early(), then you need the patch that I am beating
> >>>>> into shape. Plus you would need to use DEFINE_SRCU() and to avoid
> >>>>> invoking init_srcu_struct().
> >>>>
> >>>> And here is the patch. I do not intend to send it upstream unless it
> >>>> actually proves necessary, and it appears that current SRCU does what
> >>>> you need.
> >>>>
> >>>> You would only need this patch if you wanted to invoke call_srcu()
> >>>> before workqueue_init_early() was called, which does not seem likely.
> >>>
> >>> Cool. So I was chatting with Paul and just to update everyone as well,
> >>> I tried the DEFINE_SRCU instead of the late init_srcu_struct call and
> >>> can make it past boot too (thanks Paul!). Also I don't see a reason we
> >>> need the RCU callback to execute early and its fine if it runs later.
> >>>
> >>> Also, I was thinking of introducing a separate trace_*event*_srcu API
> >>> as a replacement to the _rcuidle API. Then I can make use of it for my
> >>> tracepoints, and then later can use it for the other tracepoints
> >>> needing _rcuidle. After that we can finally get rid of the _rcuidle
> >>> API if there are no other users of it. This is just a rough plan, but
> >>> let me know if there's any issue with this plan that you can think
> >>> off.
> >>> IMO, I believe its simpler if the caller worries about whether it can
> >>> tolerate if tracepoint probes can block or not, than making it a
> >>> property of the tracepoint. That would also simplify the patch to
> >>> introduce srcu and keep the tracepoint creation API simple and less
> >>> confusing, but let me know if I'm missing something about this.
> >>
> >> One problem with your approach is that you can have multiple callers
> >> for the same tracepoint name, where some could be non-preemptible and
> >> others blocking. Also, there is then no clear way for the callback
> >
> > Shouldn't it be responsibility of the caller to make sure it calls
> > correct API? So if you're wanting to allow probes to block, then you'd
> > call trace*blocking, if not then you don't. So the caller side can
> > just always do the right thing. That's a caller side issue.
>
> The issue there is that tracepoint.c has APIs both for instrumentation
> and for registration of probe providers (callbacks). I want tracepoint.c
> to provide guarantees that it won't connect incompatible probes and
> callsites together.
>
> >
> >>
> >> Regarding the name, I'm OK with having something along the lines of
> >> trace_*event*_blocking or such. Please don't use "srcu" or other naming
> >> that is explicitly tied to the underlying mechanism used internally
> >> however: what we want to convey is that this specific tracepoint probe
> >
> > Problem is that _blocking isn't the right word either. In my IRQ trace
> > point case, it will look something like this then:
> >
> > local_irq_disable();
> > // IRQs are now off.
> > trace_irq_disable_blocking(..);
> >
> > This wouldn't make sense. What we really want is to use the SRCU
> > implementation so that its low overhead...
> >
> > So it would be something like:
> >
> > local_irq_disable();
> > // IRQs are now off.
> > trace_irq_disable_srcu(..);
> >
> > I also Ok if, as Paul was saying in his last email, that just for
> > _rcuidle, we use SRCU so that we don't have to do the rcu_enter_irq
> > stuff. Or we kill the _rcuidle API completely and use _srcu for those
> > users instead. We already have 1 implementation specific name anyway
> > (rcuidle), we're just replacing it with another one. If in the future,
> > if we want to change that name we can always do so (Also if you will,
> > correcting the existing already bad naming is a different problem and
> > we're not making it any worse tbh).
>
> Using SRCU rather than the sched-rcu tracepoint synchronization in your
> use-case it caused by a limitation of sched-rcu: it cannot be efficiently
> used within idle code. So you don't care about the "can_sleep" property
> of SRCU. You could event mix SRCU and sched-rcu callsites for the same
> probe name, and it would be perfectly valid.
>
> So even though both "can_sleep" and "rcuidle" caller variants would end
> up using SRCU under the hood, each can have its own caller API, e.g.:
>
> * trace_<event>() -> only non-sleeping probes can register to those.
> Uses sched-rcu under the hood.
>
> * trace_<event>_can_sleep() -> both sleeping and non-sleeping probes can
> register to those. Uses SRCU under the hood.
>
> * trace_<event>_rcuidle() -> only non-sleeping probes can register to those,
> uses SRCU under the hood.
Of these, only trace_<event>() may be used from NMI handlers. We should
have a WARN_ON_ONCE(in_nmi()) in any of the ones using SRCU under the
hood. Yes, I would be surprised if there are tracepoints in functions
invoked both from idle and from NMI handlers, but I have been surprised
before. And it is much nicer to get surprised by a splat than by weird
hangs or silent data corruption. ;-)
Thanx, Paul
> >> can be preempted and block. The underlying implementation could move to
> >> a different RCU flavor brand in the future, and it should not impact
> >> users of the tracepoint APIs.
> >>
> >> In order to ensure that probes that may block only register themselves
> >> to tracepoints that allow blocking, we should introduce new tracepoint
> >> declaration/definition *and* registration APIs also contain the
> >> "BLOCKING/blocking" keywords (or such), so we can ensure that a
> >> tracepoint probe being registered to a "blocking" tracepoint is indeed
> >> allowed to block.
> >
> > I feel this problem you're describing is slightly out of the scope of
> > the issues we're talking about, I think. Even right now, someone can
> > write a callback that blocks and then bad things will happen. If I
> > understand correctly, all callbacks right now will execute in a
> > preempt disabled section because of rcu_read_lock_sched. So we already
> > have a problem (without the SRCU changes) that if a callback blocks,
> > then we'll have hard to diagnose sleeping while atomic issues. Sorry
> > if I missed your point.
>
> The current situation is that no callback whatsoever can sleep. If we
> introduce an API allowing some callbacks to sleep, I want to make sure
> we don't end up registering sleepable callbacks to non-preemptible callsites.
> Considering that the callback can be provided by a kernel module whereas the
> callsite is within the kernel, having this kind of correctness validation
> within tracepoint.c appears important.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mathieu
>
>
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > - Joel
>
> --
> Mathieu Desnoyers
> EfficiOS Inc.
> http://www.efficios.com
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2018-04-26 15:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 44+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2018-04-17 4:07 [RFC v4 0/4] Centralize and unify usage of preempt/irq tracepoints Joel Fernandes
2018-04-17 4:07 ` [RFC v4 1/4] tracepoint: Add API to not do lockdep checks during RCU ops Joel Fernandes
2018-04-17 4:07 ` [RFC v4 2/4] softirq: reorder trace_softirqs_on to prevent lockdep splat Joel Fernandes
2018-04-17 4:07 ` [RFC v4 3/4] irqflags: Avoid unnecessary calls to trace_ if you can Joel Fernandes
2018-04-18 9:02 ` Masami Hiramatsu
2018-04-19 5:43 ` Namhyung Kim
2018-04-20 7:07 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-23 1:14 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-23 3:19 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-23 14:31 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-23 14:53 ` Steven Rostedt
2018-04-23 14:59 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-23 15:12 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-23 16:18 ` Steven Rostedt
2018-04-23 17:12 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-23 17:24 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-23 21:22 ` Steven Rostedt
2018-04-24 15:56 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-24 16:01 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-24 17:26 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-24 18:23 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-24 18:26 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-24 18:59 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-24 19:01 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-24 19:09 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-24 19:16 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-24 23:21 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-24 23:46 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-25 0:10 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-25 4:20 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-25 21:27 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-25 21:35 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-04-25 21:40 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-25 22:51 ` Steven Rostedt
2018-04-26 15:03 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-26 16:08 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-25 23:13 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-26 15:13 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2018-04-26 15:20 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-26 15:49 ` Paul E. McKenney [this message]
2018-04-23 15:49 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-26 2:18 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-05-01 1:18 ` Joel Fernandes
2018-04-17 4:07 ` [RFC v4 4/4] tracing: Centralize preemptirq tracepoints and unify their usage Joel Fernandes
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