From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Cc: Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>,
Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
the arch/x86 maintainers <x86@kernel.org>,
Christoph Hellwig <hch@lst.de>,
Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
Daniel Vetter <daniel@ffwll.ch>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
Juri Lelli <juri.lelli@redhat.com>,
Vincent Guittot <vincent.guittot@linaro.org>,
Dietmar Eggemann <dietmar.eggemann@arm.com>,
Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
Ben Segall <bsegall@google.com>,
Daniel Bristot de Oliveira <bristot@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [patch V4 4/8] sched: Make migrate_disable/enable() independent of RT
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2020 19:28:43 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20201119182843.GA2414@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAHk-=wire3dzhHx=KiL_f5Rj0=1u9ustsa33QoR-F9-v-NU9Ng@mail.gmail.com>
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 09:23:47AM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 3:14 AM Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> wrote:
> >
> > I still hate all of this, and I really fear that with migrate_disable()
> > available, people will be lazy and usage will increase :/
> >
> > Case at hand is this series, the only reason we need it here is because
> > per-cpu page-tables are expensive...
>
> No, I think you as a scheduler person just need to accept it.
Well, I did do write the patches.
> Because this is certainly not the only time migration limiting has
> come up, and no, it has absolutely nothing to do with per-cpu page
> tables being completely unacceptable.
It is for this instance; but sure, it's come up before in other
contexts.
> The scheduler people need to get used to this. Really. Because ASMP is
> just going to be a fact.
ASMP is different in that it is a hardware constraint, you're just not
going to be able to run more of X than there's X capable hardware units
on (be if FPUs, Vector units, 32bit or whatever)
> There are few things more futile than railing against reality, Peter.
But, but, my windmills! :-)
> Honestly, the only argument I've ever heard against limiting migration
> is the whole "our scheduling theory doesn't cover it".
>
> So either throw the broken theory away, or live with it. Theory that
> doesn't match reality isn't theory, it's religion.
The first stage of throwing it out is understanding the problem, which
is just about where we're at. Next is creating a new formalism (if
possible) that covers this new issue. That might take a while.
Thing is though; without a formalism to reason about timeliness
guarantees, there is no Real-Time.
So sure, I've written the patches, doesn't mean I have to like the place
we're in due to it.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-11-19 18:29 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 48+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-11-18 19:48 [patch V4 0/8] mm/highmem: Preemptible variant of kmap_atomic & friends Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-18 19:48 ` [patch V4 1/8] mm/highmem: Provide and use CONFIG_DEBUG_KMAP_LOCAL Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-24 14:20 ` [tip: core/mm] " tip-bot2 for Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-18 19:48 ` [patch V4 2/8] mm/highmem: Provide CONFIG_DEBUG_KMAP_LOCAL_FORCE_MAP Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-18 21:13 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-11-19 8:46 ` Mel Gorman
2020-11-19 17:19 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-11-24 14:20 ` [tip: core/mm] " tip-bot2 for Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-18 19:48 ` [patch V4 3/8] x86: Support kmap_local() forced debugging Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-24 14:20 ` [tip: core/mm] " tip-bot2 for Thomas Gleixner
2021-01-06 23:01 ` [BUG] from " Steven Rostedt
2021-01-07 1:03 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-01-07 1:16 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-01-07 1:49 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-01-07 1:49 ` Jakub Kicinski
2021-01-07 2:11 ` Willem de Bruijn
2021-01-07 4:44 ` Willem de Bruijn
2021-01-07 19:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2021-01-07 20:52 ` Steven Rostedt
2021-01-07 21:07 ` Willem de Bruijn
2020-11-18 19:48 ` [patch V4 4/8] sched: Make migrate_disable/enable() independent of RT Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-19 9:38 ` Mel Gorman
2020-11-19 11:14 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-11-19 12:14 ` Mel Gorman
2020-11-19 14:17 ` Steven Rostedt
2020-11-19 17:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2020-11-19 18:28 ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2020-11-20 1:33 ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-20 9:29 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-11-22 23:16 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-11-23 21:15 ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-23 21:25 ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-23 22:07 ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-11-23 23:10 ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-24 10:29 ` [tip: sched/core] " tip-bot2 for Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-18 19:48 ` [patch V4 5/8] sched: highmem: Store local kmaps in task struct Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-19 11:33 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-11-19 11:51 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-11-19 12:12 ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-11-19 14:11 ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-24 14:20 ` [tip: core/mm] " tip-bot2 for Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-18 19:48 ` [patch V4 6/8] mm/highmem: Provide kmap_local* Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-24 14:20 ` [tip: core/mm] " tip-bot2 for Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-18 19:48 ` [patch V4 7/8] io-mapping: Provide iomap_local variant Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-24 14:20 ` [tip: core/mm] " tip-bot2 for Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-18 19:48 ` [patch V4 8/8] x86/crashdump/32: Simplify copy_oldmem_page() Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-24 14:20 ` [tip: core/mm] " tip-bot2 for Thomas Gleixner
2020-11-24 8:03 ` [patch V4 0/8] mm/highmem: Preemptible variant of kmap_atomic & friends Peter Zijlstra
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