From: pageexec@freemail.hu
To: Ingo Molnar <mingo@elte.hu>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
Andi Kleen <andi@firstfloor.org>, Andy Lutomirski <luto@mit.edu>,
x86@kernel.org, Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Jesper Juhl <jj@chaosbits.net>,
Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
Arjan van de Ven <arjan@infradead.org>,
Jan Beulich <JBeulich@novell.com>,
richard -rw- weinberger <richard.weinberger@gmail.com>,
Mikael Pettersson <mikpe@it.uu.se>,
Brian Gerst <brgerst@gmail.com>,
Louis Rilling <Louis.Rilling@kerlabs.com>,
Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
Subject: Re: [PATCH v5 9/9] x86-64: Add CONFIG_UNSAFE_VSYSCALLS to feature-removal-schedule
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2011 20:59:39 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <4DED239B.8177.13CDBA86@pageexec.freemail.hu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110606144414.GA30348@elte.hu>
On 6 Jun 2011 at 16:44, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> * pageexec@freemail.hu <pageexec@freemail.hu> wrote:
>
> > > > Seriously. The whole patch series just seems annoying.
> >
> > what is annoying is your covering up of security fixes on grounds
> > that you don't want to help script kiddies (a bullshit argument as
> > it were) but at the same time question proactive security measures
> > (one can debate the implementation, see my other mail) that would
> > *actually* prevent the same kiddies from writing textbook exploits.
>
> You are mixing up several issues here, and rather unfairly so.
but it's very simple logic Ingo. it goes like 'I am not willing to
do A because it would help script kiddies but I'd rather do B that
would help script kiddies'. with A = 'disclose security bugs' and
B = 'keep the last roadblock that prevents full ASLR'.
if someone's that worried about script kiddies as Linus claims to be
(which i always called a BS argument, but let's accept here), he can't
possibly argue for keeping the vsyscall page at a fixed address around,
simple as that.
and it is for security, no other reason, else you'd have to accept a patch
that maps the vdso at a fixed address again or come up with some very
convincing arguments why the vdso must stay randomized but the vsyscall
page is fine at a fixed address (i guess neither is forthcoming but you
guys can act in surprising ways, so i'm not placing any bets ;).
> Firstly, see my other mail, there's an imperfect balance to be
> found between statistical 'proactive' measures and the incentives
> that remove the *real* bugs.
i hope i replied to this already now to your satisfaction else feel free
to elaboarte.
> Secondly, *once* a real security bug has been found the correct
> action is different from the considerations of proactive measures.
as i said already, you're mixing up fixing bugs and fighting exploit
techniques. apples vs. oranges.
> How can you possibly draw equivalence between disclosure policies
> and the handling of statistical security measures?
see the simple logic above.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-06-06 19:01 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 112+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-06-05 17:50 [PATCH v5 0/9] Remove syscall instructions at fixed addresses Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 1/9] x86-64: Fix alignment of jiffies variable Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:31 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 2/9] x86-64: Document some of entry_64.S Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:31 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 3/9] x86-64: Give vvars their own page Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:32 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 4/9] x86-64: Remove kernel.vsyscall64 sysctl Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:32 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-12-05 18:27 ` [PATCH v5 4/9] " Matthew Maurer
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 5/9] x86-64: Map the HPET NX Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:33 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 6/9] x86-64: Remove vsyscall number 3 (venosys) Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:33 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 7/9] x86-64: Fill unused parts of the vsyscall page with 0xcc Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:34 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 8/9] x86-64: Emulate legacy vsyscalls Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 19:30 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-05 20:01 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-06-06 7:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 9:42 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 11:19 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-06-06 11:56 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 12:43 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-06-06 13:58 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 14:07 ` Brian Gerst
2011-06-07 23:32 ` pageexec
2011-06-07 23:49 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-06-08 6:32 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 15:26 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 15:48 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 15:59 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 16:19 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 16:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 22:49 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 22:57 ` david
2011-06-07 9:07 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 6:59 ` Pekka Enberg
2011-06-07 8:30 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 23:24 ` pageexec
2011-06-08 5:55 ` Pekka Enberg
2011-06-08 6:19 ` pageexec
2011-06-08 6:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-08 9:02 ` pageexec
2011-06-08 9:11 ` Andi Kleen
2011-06-08 9:35 ` pageexec
2011-06-08 10:06 ` Andi Kleen
2011-06-08 10:26 ` pageexec
2011-06-08 10:39 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-08 10:35 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-08 9:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-08 7:16 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-08 9:29 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 14:01 ` Linus Torvalds
2011-06-06 14:55 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 15:33 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 15:58 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 15:41 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 8:34 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:35 ` [tip:x86/vdso] x86-64, vdso, seccomp: Fix !CONFIG_SECCOMP build tip-bot for Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 7:49 ` [tip:x86/vdso] x86-64: Emulate legacy vsyscalls tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-07 8:03 ` tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-05 17:50 ` [PATCH v5 9/9] x86-64: Add CONFIG_UNSAFE_VSYSCALLS to feature-removal-schedule Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:34 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Andy Lutomirski
2011-06-06 8:46 ` [PATCH v5 9/9] " Linus Torvalds
2011-06-06 9:31 ` Andi Kleen
2011-06-06 10:39 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 13:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2011-06-06 18:46 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 20:40 ` Linus Torvalds
2011-06-06 20:51 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-06-06 21:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 21:45 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 21:48 ` Ingo Molnar
[not found] ` <BANLkTi==uw_h78oaep1cCOCzwY0edLUU_Q@mail.gmail.com>
2011-06-07 8:03 ` [PATCH, v6] x86-64: Emulate legacy vsyscalls Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 21:53 ` [PATCH v5 9/9] x86-64: Add CONFIG_UNSAFE_VSYSCALLS to feature-removal-schedule pageexec
2011-06-06 14:44 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 15:01 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 15:15 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 15:29 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 16:54 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 18:59 ` pageexec [this message]
2011-06-06 19:25 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 0:34 ` pageexec
2011-06-07 9:51 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 23:24 ` pageexec
2011-06-10 11:19 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-14 0:48 ` pageexec
2011-06-15 19:42 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2011-06-06 14:52 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 10:24 ` [PATCH] x86-64, vsyscalls: Rename UNSAFE_VSYSCALLS to COMPAT_VSYSCALLS Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 11:20 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 12:47 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 12:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 18:04 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 19:12 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 0:02 ` pageexec
2011-06-07 9:56 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 23:24 ` pageexec
2011-06-09 6:48 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-09 23:33 ` pageexec
2011-06-07 10:05 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 23:24 ` pageexec
2011-06-09 7:02 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-09 23:33 ` pageexec
2011-06-07 10:13 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-07 23:24 ` pageexec
2011-06-06 12:19 ` Ted Ts'o
2011-06-06 12:33 ` Andrew Lutomirski
2011-06-06 12:37 ` Ingo Molnar
2011-06-06 14:34 ` [tip:x86/vdso] " tip-bot for Ingo Molnar
2011-06-05 20:05 ` [PATCH v5 0/9] Remove syscall instructions at fixed addresses Andrew Lutomirski
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=4DED239B.8177.13CDBA86@pageexec.freemail.hu \
--to=pageexec@freemail.hu \
--cc=JBeulich@novell.com \
--cc=Louis.Rilling@kerlabs.com \
--cc=Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu \
--cc=akpm@linux-foundation.org \
--cc=andi@firstfloor.org \
--cc=arjan@infradead.org \
--cc=bp@alien8.de \
--cc=brgerst@gmail.com \
--cc=jj@chaosbits.net \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=luto@mit.edu \
--cc=mikpe@it.uu.se \
--cc=mingo@elte.hu \
--cc=richard.weinberger@gmail.com \
--cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
--cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
--cc=x86@kernel.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).