From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
To: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>
Cc: Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@redhat.com>,
dhowells <dhowells@redhat.com>, Paul Mackerras <paulus@samba.org>,
Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>, Matthew Wilcox <matthew@wil.cx>,
hch@infradead.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
libc-hacker@sources.redhat.com
Subject: Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 16:10:45 -0800 (PST) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0411301605500.22796@ppc970.osdl.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1101858657.4574.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004, David Woodhouse wrote:
>
> Linus, you're arguing that it's better to let users use something which
> is non-portable and silently does the wrong thing, as long as it
> actually compiles. That this is preferable to making sure it doesn't
> compile.
I'm saying that if it worked before, it should work after. And my
suggestion gives a nice warning.
> But atomic.h isn't an example of that.
Even atomic.h. I could well imagine that somebody includes atomic.h just
to get the thread-safe updates for some architectures. For example,
asm-alpha/atomic.h does it right, and I woul dnot be at all surprised if
somebody had noticed.
And your suggestion has the problem that the people who get bitten by a
non-compiling thing are not necessarily the same people who can fix it.
> software'? Of course not; you have to draw the line somewhere. And I
> would draw it somewhere between atomic.h and byteorder.h -- where would
> _you_ draw it?
I'll draw it at "somebody might validly use it", because the fact is, I
can't test it.
Which is why I want patches to this to be OBVIOUSLY CORRECT, dammit! How
hard is that to understand?
The fact is, the less benefit there is from a change, the more obviously
correct it has to be in all forms. Moving stuff around in header files
basically fixes zero bugs in the kernel, so the benefit for the kernel is
basically zero. Which means that the obviousness factor of the change had
better be pretty close to infinite.
Comprende?
Linus
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2004-12-01 0:11 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 185+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2004-11-25 15:13 [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__ David Howells
2004-11-25 15:23 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-25 16:54 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-25 18:17 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 3:24 ` Greg KH
2004-11-28 23:37 ` Paul Mackerras
2004-11-29 1:28 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-29 4:36 ` Jeff Garzik
2004-11-29 4:57 ` Al Viro
2004-11-29 5:27 ` Tim Hockin
2004-11-29 7:51 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-12-05 0:49 ` Rob Landley
2004-12-05 2:26 ` Andries Brouwer
2004-12-05 13:19 ` David Greaves
2004-12-05 15:57 ` Andries Brouwer
2004-12-05 23:05 ` Rob Landley
2004-12-06 9:56 ` Andries Brouwer
2004-11-29 9:42 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 8:08 ` Alex Riesen
2004-11-30 8:57 ` Alex Riesen
2004-12-01 11:46 ` Ralf Baechle
2004-12-02 1:21 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-29 9:53 ` Paul Mackerras
2004-11-29 9:57 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-29 10:01 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-29 11:41 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-29 17:09 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-29 17:41 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-29 22:44 ` Al Viro
2004-12-01 11:36 ` Roman Zippel
[not found] ` <oract0thnj.fsf@livre.redhat.lsd.ic.unicamp.br>
2004-11-29 23:00 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 0:45 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30 5:31 ` Herbert Poetzl
2004-11-30 6:44 ` bert hubert
2004-11-30 21:22 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 22:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:57 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:12 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 19:41 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-12-01 19:54 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-12-02 3:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-02 4:28 ` Bernd Eckenfels
2004-12-02 5:11 ` Peter Williams
2004-12-02 11:30 ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-12-02 22:17 ` Peter Williams
2004-12-02 9:29 ` Pekka Enberg
2004-12-02 15:35 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-02 21:46 ` Pekka Enberg
2004-11-30 15:35 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 15:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 16:28 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 16:53 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 17:52 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 18:21 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 20:28 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 20:47 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:33 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-30 22:44 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 23:03 ` Al Viro
2004-11-30 23:08 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-12-01 5:23 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-12-01 10:52 ` Mariusz Mazur
2004-12-01 18:08 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-30 23:13 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:36 ` Chris Friesen
2004-12-01 5:50 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30 22:48 ` Matt Mackall
2004-11-30 22:51 ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-11-30 23:09 ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-30 23:35 ` Matt Mackall
2004-12-01 0:23 ` Miquel van Smoorenburg
2004-11-30 22:55 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:29 ` Matt Mackall
2004-12-03 1:03 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-11-30 23:51 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 17:55 ` Al Viro
2004-11-30 16:33 ` David Howells
2004-11-30 16:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 15:33 ` David Howells
2004-11-30 15:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 20:47 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 20:56 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 21:30 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 21:39 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 23:33 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-30 22:25 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 22:34 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-30 22:51 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:50 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01 0:10 ` Linus Torvalds [this message]
2004-12-01 0:18 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 8:10 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-12-01 0:24 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01 0:37 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 0:47 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01 0:57 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 1:06 ` David Woodhouse
2004-12-01 1:23 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-01 6:48 ` BAIN
2004-12-01 2:02 ` cdrom.h (was Re: [RFC] Splitting kernel headers...) Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-30 22:52 ` [RFC] Splitting kernel headers and deprecating __KERNEL__ Mariusz Mazur
2004-11-30 23:05 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 23:05 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-30 16:18 ` David Howells
2004-12-14 5:51 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 15:49 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 16:50 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 17:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 21:46 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-14 21:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 23:49 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-12-15 0:09 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-12-16 0:58 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-12-14 19:23 ` Horst von Brand
2004-12-14 19:45 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-12-14 19:58 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 20:25 ` Andreas Schwab
2004-12-14 20:33 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-12-14 16:55 ` Andreas Schwab
2004-12-14 17:59 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-27 20:39 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-25 18:20 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-25 21:01 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-25 22:35 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 11:42 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-27 0:13 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 0:26 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 0:30 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 0:38 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 11:47 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-26 11:53 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 16:12 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2004-11-26 11:58 ` David Howells
2004-11-26 12:00 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-26 14:19 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-26 14:33 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 12:10 ` Alexander Stohr
2004-11-27 3:46 ` Adam Heath
2004-11-30 12:18 ` Horst von Brand
2004-11-29 16:34 ` Alexandre Oliva
2004-11-25 18:45 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-26 11:52 ` David Howells
2004-11-26 23:56 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-11-27 1:27 ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27 1:41 ` Grzegorz Kulewski
2004-11-27 2:03 ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27 3:07 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-27 4:29 ` Tonnerre
2004-11-27 3:51 ` Matthew Wilcox
2004-11-27 16:47 ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-11-27 17:16 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 22:53 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-27 23:12 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 23:27 ` Randy.Dunlap
2004-11-27 23:32 ` David Woodhouse
2004-11-27 23:56 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 7:13 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 12:03 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 12:19 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 16:34 ` Kevin Puetz
2004-11-28 12:28 ` Wichert Akkerman
2004-11-28 12:44 ` Arjan van de Ven
2004-11-28 16:21 ` Jakub Jelinek
2004-11-28 7:20 ` Christoph Hellwig
2004-11-27 4:05 ` Chris Friesen
2004-11-27 4:30 ` Tomas Carnecky
2004-11-27 21:03 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-27 21:11 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 21:19 ` Sam Ravnborg
2004-11-27 21:49 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-27 23:21 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-28 13:24 ` Andreas Steinmetz
2004-11-28 13:40 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-29 11:08 ` David Howells
2004-11-29 20:01 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-11-30 0:34 ` Kyle Moffett
2004-11-30 0:51 ` H. Peter Anvin
2004-12-14 7:07 ` Werner Almesberger
2004-11-27 19:43 Dan Kegel
2004-11-27 21:06 ` Sam Ravnborg
[not found] <34Xo6-2P0-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <35i9f-2vZ-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <35iLS-2Uo-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
[not found] ` <35kb6-46Q-25@gated-at.bofh.it>
2004-11-28 0:55 ` ak
2004-11-28 13:32 ` Arnd Bergmann
2004-11-30 1:43 Jean Tourrilhes
2004-11-30 4:22 ` Linus Torvalds
2004-11-30 6:51 ` H. Peter Anvin
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