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From: Gary Guo <gary@garyguo.net>
To: "Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alex Gaynor <alex.gaynor@gmail.com>,
	Wedson Almeida Filho <wedsonaf@gmail.com>,
	Matthew Wilcox <willy@infradead.org>,
	Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org>,
	Miguel Ojeda <miguel.ojeda.sandonis@gmail.com>,
	Konstantin Shelekhin <k.shelekhin@yadro.com>,
	ojeda@kernel.org, ark.email@gmail.com, bjorn3_gh@protonmail.com,
	bobo1239@web.de, bonifaido@gmail.com, boqun.feng@gmail.com,
	davidgow@google.com, dev@niklasmohrin.de,
	dsosnowski@dsosnowski.pl, foxhlchen@gmail.com,
	geofft@ldpreload.com, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org,
	jarkko@kernel.org, john.m.baublitz@gmail.com,
	leseulartichaut@gmail.com, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, me@kloenk.de, milan@mdaverde.com,
	mjmouse9999@gmail.com, patches@lists.linux.dev,
	rust-for-linux@vger.kernel.org, thesven73@gmail.com,
	viktor@v-gar.de, Andreas Hindborg <andreas.hindborg@wdc.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v9 12/27] rust: add `kernel` crate
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2022 23:39:47 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20220920233947.0000345c@garyguo.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87a66uxcpc.fsf@email.froward.int.ebiederm.org>

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 10:55:27 -0500
"Eric W. Biederman" <ebiederm@xmission.com> wrote:

> Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> writes:
> 
> > On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 4:58 PM Linus Torvalds
> > <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:  
> >>
> >> This is not some kind of "a few special things".
> >>
> >> This is things like absolutely _anything_ that allocates memory, or
> >> takes a lock, or does a number of other things.  
> >
> > Examples of "number of other things" ends up being things like
> > "accessing user memory", which depending on what you are doing may
> > be very common too.
> >
> > And btw, it's not only about the (multiple kinds of) atomic regions.
> >
> > We have other context rules in the kernel too, like "does floating
> > point or vector unit calculations". Which you can actually do, but
> > only in a kernel_fpu_begin/kernel_fpu_end region.
> >
> > Now, the floating point thing is rare enough that it's probably fine
> > to just say "no floating point at all in Rust code".  It tends to be
> > very special code, so you'd write it in C or inline assembly,
> > because you're doing special things like using the vector unit for
> > crypto hashes using special CPU instructions.  
> 
> I just want to point out that there are ways of representing things
> like the context you are running in during compile time.  I won't
> argue they are necessarily practical, but there are ways and by
> exploring those ways some practical solutions may result.
> 
> Instead of saying:
> spin_lock(&lock);
> do_something();
> spin_unlock(&lock);
> 
> It is possible to say:
> with_spin_lock(&lock, do_something());
> 
> This can be taken a step farther and with_spin_lock can pass a
> ``token'' say a structure with no members that disappears at compile
> time that let's the code know it has the spinlock held.
> 
> In C I would do:
> struct have_spin_lock_x {
> 	// nothing
> };
> 
> do_something(struct have_spin_lock_x context_guarantee)
> {
> 	...;
> }
> 
> I think most of the special contexts in the kernel can be represented
> in a similar manner.  A special parameter that can be passed and will
> compile out.
> 
> I don't recall seeing anything like that tried in the kernel so I
> don't know if it makes sense or if it would get too wordy to live,
> but it is possible.  If passing a free context parameter is not too
> wordy it would catch silly errors, and would hopefully leave more
> mental space for developers to pay attention to the other details of
> the problems they are solving.
> 
> *Shrug*  I don't know if rust allows for free parameters like that and
> if it does I don't know if it would be cheap enough to live.

I believe this was mentioned by Wedson in one of his previous emails.
This pattern is quite common in Rust code. It looks like this:

	#[derive(Clone, Copy)]
	pub struct Token<'a>(PhantomData<&'a ()>);
	
	pub fn with_token<T>(f: impl for<'a> FnOnce(Token<'a>) -> T) ->
	T { f(Token(PhantomData))
	}

Any function that requires something can just take token by value, e.g.
with `token: Token<'_>`. Since Token is a zero-sized type (ZST), this
parameter will be omitted during code generation, so it won't affect
the ABI and this has no runtime cost.

Example on godbolt: https://godbolt.org/z/9n954cG4d, showing that the
token is actually all optimised out.

It should be noted however, atomic context is not something that a
token can represent. You can only use tokens to restrict what you *can*
do, but not what you *can't* do. There is no negative reasoning with
tokens, you can't create a function that can only be called when you
don't have token.

You can use tokens to represent non-atomic contexts, but that'll be
really painful because this requires carrying a token in almost all
functions. This kind of API also works well for FPU contexts.

Best,
Gary

  reply	other threads:[~2022-09-20 22:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-08-05 15:41 [PATCH v9 00/27] Rust support Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 01/27] kallsyms: use `sizeof` instead of hardcoded size Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 16:48   ` Geert Stappers
2022-08-05 18:46     ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 22:40   ` Konstantin Shelekhin
2022-08-17 19:36     ` Kees Cook
2022-08-18  9:03       ` Konstantin Shelekhin
2022-08-18 16:03         ` Kees Cook
2022-09-27 12:48           ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 02/27] kallsyms: avoid hardcoding buffer size Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 19:37   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-18 16:50     ` Geert Stappers
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 03/27] kallsyms: add static relationship between `KSYM_NAME_LEN{,_BUFFER}` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 19:39   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-17 19:50     ` Boqun Feng
2022-08-17 20:31       ` Kees Cook
2022-08-17 20:45         ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 04/27] kallsyms: support "big" kernel symbols Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 05/27] kallsyms: increase maximum kernel symbol length to 512 Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 06/27] rust: add C helpers Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 19:44   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-17 20:22     ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:34       ` Kees Cook
2022-08-17 21:44         ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 23:56           ` Kees Cook
2022-08-18 16:03             ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-18 16:08               ` Kees Cook
2022-08-18 17:01                 ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 08/27] rust: adapt `alloc` crate to the kernel Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 09/27] rust: add `compiler_builtins` crate Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:08   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-22 23:55   ` Nick Desaulniers
2022-08-24 18:38     ` Nick Desaulniers
2022-08-29 17:11       ` Gary Guo
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 10/27] rust: add `macros` crate Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 11/27] rust: add `bindings` crate Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 12/27] rust: add `kernel` crate Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-06 10:24   ` Konstantin Shelekhin
2022-08-06 11:22     ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-06 12:15       ` Konstantin Shelekhin
2022-08-06 14:57       ` Matthew Wilcox
2022-09-19 14:07         ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2022-09-19 16:09           ` Linus Torvalds
2022-09-19 17:20             ` Linus Torvalds
2022-09-19 18:05               ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2022-09-19 20:42                 ` Linus Torvalds
2022-09-19 22:35                   ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2022-09-19 23:39                     ` Linus Torvalds
2022-09-19 23:50                       ` Alex Gaynor
2022-09-19 23:58                         ` Linus Torvalds
2022-09-20  0:15                           ` Linus Torvalds
2022-09-20 15:55                             ` Eric W. Biederman
2022-09-20 22:39                               ` Gary Guo [this message]
2022-09-21  6:42                                 ` comex
2022-09-21 14:19                                   ` Boqun Feng
2022-10-03  2:03                                     ` comex
2022-09-20  0:40                           ` Boqun Feng
2022-10-03  4:17                             ` Kyle Strand
2022-09-20  0:41                       ` Wedson Almeida Filho
2022-09-21 11:23       ` Konstantin Shelekhin
2022-09-21 11:46         ` Greg KH
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 13/27] rust: export generated symbols Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:11   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-05 15:41 ` [PATCH v9 14/27] vsprintf: add new `%pA` format specifier Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 15/27] scripts: checkpatch: diagnose uses of `%pA` in the C side as errors Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 16/27] scripts: checkpatch: enable language-independent checks for Rust Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:12   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 17/27] scripts: decode_stacktrace: demangle Rust symbols Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 18/27] scripts: add `generate_rust_analyzer.py` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:13   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 19/27] scripts: add `generate_rust_target.rs` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:14   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 20/27] scripts: add `rust_is_available.sh` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:18   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-17 20:40     ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-22 20:09   ` Nick Desaulniers
2022-08-23 12:12     ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-23 12:16       ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 21/27] scripts: add `is_rust_module.sh` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:19   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 22/27] rust: add `.rustfmt.toml` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:19   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 23/27] Kbuild: add Rust support Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:26   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-17 20:56     ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-22 22:35   ` Nick Desaulniers
2022-09-12 16:07   ` Masahiro Yamada
2022-09-12 16:18     ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-09-13  6:37       ` Masahiro Yamada
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 24/27] docs: add Rust documentation Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 25/27] x86: enable initial Rust support Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:27   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 26/27] samples: add first Rust examples Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-06 13:14   ` Konstantin Shelekhin
2022-08-17 21:02     ` Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-18  9:04       ` Konstantin Shelekhin
2022-08-17 20:28   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-05 15:42 ` [PATCH v9 27/27] MAINTAINERS: Rust Miguel Ojeda
2022-08-17 20:28   ` Kees Cook
2022-08-17 20:43     ` Miguel Ojeda
     [not found] ` <20220805154231.31257-8-ojeda@kernel.org>
2022-08-17 20:07   ` [PATCH v9 07/27] rust: import upstream `alloc` crate Kees Cook
2022-08-17 21:00     ` Miguel Ojeda

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