From: "Luis R. Rodriguez" <mcgrof@kernel.org>
To: George Dunlap <george.dunlap@citrix.com>
Cc: "Matt Fleming" <matt@codeblueprint.co.uk>,
jeffm@suse.com,
"Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"Jim Fehlig" <jfehlig@suse.com>,
"Jan Beulich" <JBeulich@suse.com>,
"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
"Daniel Kiper" <daniel.kiper@oracle.com>,
"the arch/x86 maintainers" <x86@kernel.org>,
"Takashi Iwai" <tiwai@suse.de>,
"Vojtěch Pavlík" <vojtech@suse.cz>, "Gary Lin" <GLin@suse.com>,
xen-devel <xen-devel@lists.xenproject.org>,
"Jeffrey Cheung" <JCheung@suse.com>,
"Charles Arndol" <carnold@suse.com>,
"Julien Grall" <julien.grall@arm.com>,
"Stefano Stabellini" <stefano.stabellini@eu.citrix.com>,
joeyli <jlee@suse.com>, "Borislav Petkov" <bp@alien8.de>,
"Boris Ostrovsky" <boris.ostrovsky@oracle.com>,
"Juergen Gross" <jgross@suse.com>,
"Andrew Cooper" <andrew.cooper3@citrix.com>,
"Michael Chang" <MChang@suse.com>,
"Andy Lutomirski" <luto@amacapital.net>
Subject: Re: HVMLite / PVHv2 - using x86 EFI boot entry
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2016 21:44:08 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20160414194408.GP1990__10649.2275059738$1460663150$gmane$org@wotan.suse.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <570F68AB.2040400@citrix.com>
On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 10:53:47AM +0100, George Dunlap wrote:
> On 13/04/16 20:52, Luis R. Rodriguez wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 04:44:54PM +0100, George Dunlap wrote:
> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:51 PM, Luis R. Rodriguez <mcgrof@suse.com> wrote:
> >>> So more to it, if the EFI entry already provides a way into Linux
> >>> in a more streamlined fashion bringing it closer to the bare metal
> >>> boot entry, why *would* we add another boot entry to x86, even if
> >>> its small and self contained ?
> >>
> >> We would avoid using EFI if:
> >
> > And this is what I was looking for, thanks!
> >
> >> * Being called both on real hardware and under Xen would make the EFI
> >> entry point more complicated
> >
> > That's on the EFI Linux maintainer to assess. And he seems willing to
> > consider this.
> >
> >> * Adding the necessary EFI support into Xen would be a significant
> >> chunk of extra work
> >
> > This seems to be a good sticking point, but Andi noted another aspect
> > of this or redundancy as well.
> >
> >> * Requiring PVH mode to implement EFI would make it more difficult for
> >> other kernes (NetBSD, FreeBSD) to act as dom0s.
> >
> > What if this is an option only then ?
> >
> >>
> >> * Requiring PVH mode to use EFI would make it more difficult to
> >> support unikernel-style workloads for domUs.
> >
> > What if this is an option only then ?
>
> So first of all, you asked why anyone would oppose EFI, and this is part
> of the answer to that.
>
> Secondly, you mean "What if this is the only thing the Linux maintainers
> will accept?" And you already know the answer to that.
No, I meant to ask, would it be possible to make booting HVMLite using EFI
be optional ? That way if you already support EFI that can be used on
your entires with some small modifications.
> How much of a burden it would be on the rest of the open-source
> ecosystem (Xen, *BSDs, &c) is a combination of some as-yet unknown facts
> (i.e., what a minimal Xen/Linux EFI interface would look like) and a
> matter of judgement (i.e., given the same interface, reasonable people
> may come to different conclusions about whether the interface is an
> undue burden to impose on others or not).
>
> But I would hope that the Linux maintainers would at least consider the
> broader community when weighing their decisions, and not take advantage
> of their position of dominance to simply ignore the effect of their
> choices on everybody else.
This has nothing to do with dominance or anything nefarious, I'm asking
simply for a full engineering evaluation of all possibilities, with
the long term in mind. Not for now, but for hardware assumptions which
are sensible 5 years from now.
Luis
_______________________________________________
Xen-devel mailing list
Xen-devel@lists.xen.org
http://lists.xen.org/xen-devel
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2016-04-14 19:44 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20160406024027.GX1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-06 9:40 ` HVMLite / PVHv2 - using x86 EFI boot entry David Vrabel
2016-04-06 11:07 ` George Dunlap
2016-04-06 11:11 ` Daniel Kiper
[not found] ` <CAFLBxZbRjB6QWH5GbG6osCXat9NQVUAyDYrAMrdALbCofpX3Dg@mail.gmail.com>
2016-04-06 15:02 ` Matt Fleming
2016-04-07 18:51 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160406150240.GO2701@codeblueprint.co.uk>
2016-04-06 16:05 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-06 16:23 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-08 21:53 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-04-13 10:03 ` Roger Pau Monné
[not found] ` <20160413100312.647eocdtbmak4btk@mac>
2016-04-13 10:21 ` Matt Fleming
[not found] ` <20160407185148.GL1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-08 14:16 ` George Dunlap
[not found] ` <5707BD2E.20204@citrix.com>
2016-04-08 21:58 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160408215854.GU1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-12 22:12 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-04-13 9:54 ` Roger Pau Monné
[not found] ` <20160412221225.GN1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-13 10:05 ` George Dunlap
2016-04-13 10:25 ` Roger Pau Monné
[not found] ` <CAFLBxZbiGppNad=Z6-fLgx89O0yAFrSyARTCwv=vHBR3zJ=NsA@mail.gmail.com>
2016-04-13 18:54 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413185451.GY1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-14 9:42 ` George Dunlap
[not found] ` <570F65F7.5050108@citrix.com>
2016-04-14 19:59 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413102156.b4qwhwbqvnnpmxgw@mac>
2016-04-13 19:10 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413095428.5mcbrimvc6vxffcw@mac>
2016-04-13 18:50 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413185010.GX1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-13 19:02 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-13 19:14 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413191408.GA1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-13 19:22 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-13 20:01 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413200118.GC1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-13 20:11 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-13 20:35 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <CAB=NE6VdTB1Bc=c0oCd_tTHpwwkQcxhnOFdcLfck2jX=JjuOAQ@mail.gmail.com>
2016-04-13 20:48 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-14 10:13 ` George Dunlap
2016-04-13 15:44 ` George Dunlap
[not found] ` <CAFLBxZbJ4QyJQ1-ZuXg_Q-9YNXnWzDyPNp4SX=d9g0DS8mJKaw@mail.gmail.com>
2016-04-13 19:52 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413195257.GB1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-14 9:53 ` George Dunlap
[not found] ` <570F68AB.2040400@citrix.com>
2016-04-14 19:44 ` Luis R. Rodriguez [this message]
[not found] ` <20160414194408.GP1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-14 20:38 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
[not found] ` <20160414203847.GB21657@localhost.localdomain>
2016-04-14 21:12 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160414211201.GS1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-15 2:14 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-15 5:50 ` Juergen Gross
2016-04-15 9:59 ` George Dunlap
[not found] ` <57108121.1070307@suse.com>
2016-04-15 15:24 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <5710BB74.2060409@citrix.com>
2016-04-15 15:30 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160415153028.GX1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-15 16:03 ` George Dunlap
[not found] ` <571110BB.2000408@citrix.com>
2016-04-15 17:17 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <5704D978.1050101@citrix.com>
2016-04-08 20:40 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160408204032.GR1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-11 5:12 ` Juergen Gross
[not found] ` <570B3228.90400@suse.com>
2016-04-12 21:02 ` Andy Lutomirski
[not found] ` <CALCETrXvGR3XKJf5Ab_ZPc-iuNuzR8AzLpRBciemKz4r0vSrGA@mail.gmail.com>
2016-04-13 9:02 ` Roger Pau Monné
[not found] ` <20160413090202.bg2vfdl3iol7eedv@mac>
2016-04-13 10:15 ` Matt Fleming
[not found] ` <20160413101515.GJ2829@codeblueprint.co.uk>
2016-04-13 10:40 ` Matt Fleming
2016-04-13 11:12 ` George Dunlap
2016-04-13 11:59 ` Roger Pau Monné
[not found] ` <20160413115846.hyt4lg24rfkenbxu@mac>
2016-04-15 22:53 ` Matt Fleming
2016-04-13 18:29 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413182951.GW1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-13 18:56 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-13 20:40 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413204055.GD1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-13 21:08 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-13 22:23 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160413222317.GH1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-14 1:01 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
[not found] ` <20160414010131.GA21510@localhost.localdomain>
2016-04-14 18:40 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160414184048.GM1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-14 19:56 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-14 20:56 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160414205619.GR1990@wotan.suse.de>
2016-04-15 2:02 ` Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk
2016-04-15 10:06 ` Julien Grall
[not found] ` <5710BD0B.2070306@arm.com>
2016-04-15 14:55 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <CAB=NE6UDuLOnW8xfTcgCGSbJ1aS4TkkokcGdeJGHMBps0T9=Sg@mail.gmail.com>
2016-04-15 18:44 ` Stefano Stabellini
[not found] ` <20160415020246.GA6956@localhost.localdomain>
2016-04-15 17:08 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
[not found] ` <20160406111130.GG3489@olila.local.net-space.pl>
2016-04-07 19:12 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-04-09 17:02 ` Luis R. Rodriguez
2016-04-06 2:40 Luis R. Rodriguez
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