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From: Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan 
	<sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@linux.intel.com>,
	Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	x86@kernel.org, Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@google.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>,
	Andreas Noever <andreas.noever@gmail.com>,
	Michael Jamet <michael.jamet@intel.com>,
	Yehezkel Bernat <YehezkelShB@gmail.com>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Mika Westerberg <mika.westerberg@linux.intel.com>,
	Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan <knsathya@kernel.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-pci@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-usb@vger.kernel.org,
	virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org, "Reshetova,
	Elena" <elena.reshetova@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/6] driver core: Add common support to skip probe for un-authorized devices
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:23:36 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <00156941-300d-a34a-772b-17f0a9aad885@linux.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210930115243-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>


> I don't think the current mitigations under discussion here are about
> keeping the system working. In fact most encrypted VM configs tend to
> stop booting as a preferred way to handle security issues.

Maybe we should avoid the "trusted" term here. We're only really using 
it because USB is using it and we're now using a common framework like 
Greg requested. But I don't think it's the right way to think about it.

We usually call the drivers "hardened". The requirement for a hardened 
driver is that all interactions through MMIO/port/config space IO/MSRs 
are sanitized and do not cause memory safety issues or other information 
leaks. Other than that there is no requirement on the functionality. In 
particular DOS is ok since a malicious hypervisor can decide to not run 
the guest at any time anyways.

Someone loading an malicious driver inside the guest would be out of 
scope. If an attacker can do that inside the guest you already violated 
the security mechanisms and there are likely easier ways to take over 
the guest or leak data.

The goal of the device filter mechanism is to prevent loading unhardened 
drivers that could be exploited without them being themselves malicious.


-Andi



WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID
From: Andi Kleen <ak@linux.intel.com>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: Jonathan Corbet <corbet@lwn.net>,
	Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
	<sathyanarayanan.kuppuswamy@linux.intel.com>,
	Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan <knsathya@kernel.org>,
	"Rafael J . Wysocki" <rafael@kernel.org>,
	Michael Jamet <michael.jamet@intel.com>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>,
	x86@kernel.org, virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	Yehezkel Bernat <YehezkelShB@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Andreas Noever <andreas.noever@gmail.com>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	linux-pci@vger.kernel.org, Bjorn Helgaas <bhelgaas@google.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	linux-usb@vger.kernel.org,
	Mika Westerberg <mika.westerberg@linux.intel.com>,
	Dan Williams <dan.j.williams@intel.com>,
	"Reshetova, Elena" <elena.reshetova@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2 2/6] driver core: Add common support to skip probe for un-authorized devices
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:23:36 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <00156941-300d-a34a-772b-17f0a9aad885@linux.intel.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20210930115243-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>


> I don't think the current mitigations under discussion here are about
> keeping the system working. In fact most encrypted VM configs tend to
> stop booting as a preferred way to handle security issues.

Maybe we should avoid the "trusted" term here. We're only really using 
it because USB is using it and we're now using a common framework like 
Greg requested. But I don't think it's the right way to think about it.

We usually call the drivers "hardened". The requirement for a hardened 
driver is that all interactions through MMIO/port/config space IO/MSRs 
are sanitized and do not cause memory safety issues or other information 
leaks. Other than that there is no requirement on the functionality. In 
particular DOS is ok since a malicious hypervisor can decide to not run 
the guest at any time anyways.

Someone loading an malicious driver inside the guest would be out of 
scope. If an attacker can do that inside the guest you already violated 
the security mechanisms and there are likely easier ways to take over 
the guest or leak data.

The goal of the device filter mechanism is to prevent loading unhardened 
drivers that could be exploited without them being themselves malicious.


-Andi


_______________________________________________
Virtualization mailing list
Virtualization@lists.linux-foundation.org
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/virtualization

  reply	other threads:[~2021-09-30 19:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 132+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-09-30  1:05 [PATCH v2 0/6] Add device filter support Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30  1:05 ` [PATCH v2 1/6] driver core: Move the "authorized" attribute from USB/Thunderbolt to core Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30  1:42   ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30  1:42     ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30  1:55     ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30  1:55       ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30  2:38       ` Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30  4:59         ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30  4:59           ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30  9:05           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2021-09-30  9:05             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2021-09-30 14:59       ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 14:59         ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 15:25         ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 15:25           ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 11:19   ` Yehezkel Bernat
2021-09-30 15:28     ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 15:28       ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 18:25       ` Yehezkel Bernat
2021-09-30 19:04         ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 19:04           ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 19:50           ` Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30 20:23             ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 20:23               ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30  1:05 ` [PATCH v2 2/6] driver core: Add common support to skip probe for un-authorized devices Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30 10:59   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 10:59     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 13:52     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 13:52       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 14:38       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 14:38         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 14:49         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 14:49           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 15:00           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 15:00             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 15:22             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 15:22               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 17:17               ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 17:17                 ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 17:23                 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 17:23                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 19:15                   ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 19:15                     ` Andi Kleen
2021-10-01  6:29                     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-01  6:29                       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-01 15:51                       ` Alan Stern
2021-10-01 15:51                         ` Alan Stern
2021-10-01 15:56                         ` Andi Kleen
2021-10-01 15:56                           ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 14:43       ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 14:43         ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 14:48         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 14:48           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 15:32           ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 15:32             ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 15:52             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 15:52               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 14:58         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 14:58           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 15:35           ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 15:35             ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 15:59             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 15:59               ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 19:23               ` Andi Kleen [this message]
2021-09-30 19:23                 ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 20:44                 ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 20:44                   ` Alan Stern
2021-09-30 20:52                   ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 20:52                     ` Dan Williams
2021-10-01  1:41                     ` Alan Stern
2021-10-01  1:41                       ` Alan Stern
2021-10-01  2:20                       ` Dan Williams
2021-10-01  2:20                         ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 21:12                   ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 21:12                     ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30  1:05 ` [PATCH v2 3/6] driver core: Allow arch to initialize the authorized attribute Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30  1:05 ` [PATCH v2 4/6] virtio: Initialize authorized attribute for confidential guest Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30 11:03   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 11:03     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 13:36     ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 13:36       ` Dan Williams
2021-09-30 13:49       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 13:49         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 15:18       ` Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30 15:20         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 15:20           ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-09-30 15:23           ` Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30 15:23         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 15:23           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 19:04           ` Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30 19:16             ` Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30 19:30             ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 19:30               ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 19:40               ` Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan
2021-10-01  7:03             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-01  7:03               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-01 15:49               ` Andi Kleen
2021-10-01 15:49                 ` Andi Kleen
2021-10-02 11:04                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-10-02 11:04                   ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-10-02 11:14                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-02 11:14                     ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-02 14:20                     ` Andi Kleen
2021-10-02 14:20                       ` Andi Kleen
2021-10-02 14:44                       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-02 14:44                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-02 18:40                       ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-10-02 18:40                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2021-10-03  6:40                         ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-03  6:40                           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-04 21:04                       ` Dan Williams
2021-10-04 21:04                         ` Dan Williams
2021-10-01 16:13               ` Dan Williams
2021-10-01 16:13                 ` Dan Williams
2021-10-01 16:45                 ` Alan Stern
2021-10-01 16:45                   ` Alan Stern
2021-10-01 18:09                   ` Dan Williams
2021-10-01 18:09                     ` Dan Williams
2021-10-01 19:00                     ` Alan Stern
2021-10-01 19:00                       ` Alan Stern
2021-10-01 19:45                       ` Kuppuswamy, Sathyanarayanan
2021-10-01 19:57                       ` Dan Williams
2021-10-01 19:57                         ` Dan Williams
2021-10-04  5:16                         ` Mika Westerberg
2021-10-05 22:33                           ` Dan Williams
2021-10-05 22:33                             ` Dan Williams
2021-10-06  5:45                             ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-10-06  5:45                               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2021-09-30 19:25         ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30 19:25           ` Andi Kleen
2021-09-30  1:05 ` [PATCH v2 5/6] x86/tdx: Add device filter support for x86 TDX guest platform Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan
2021-09-30  1:05 ` [PATCH v2 6/6] PCI: Initialize authorized attribute for confidential guest Kuppuswamy Sathyanarayanan

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