From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING,NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C41CC4332B for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:15:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [23.128.96.18]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C68E22BED for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:15:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1732203AbhAKNO7 (ORCPT ); Mon, 11 Jan 2021 08:14:59 -0500 Received: from smtp6-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.6]:26862 "EHLO smtp6-g21.free.fr" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1732098AbhAKNO0 (ORCPT ); Mon, 11 Jan 2021 08:14:26 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.91] (unknown [77.207.133.132]) (Authenticated sender: marc.w.gonzalez) by smtp6-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7647A78038E; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:13:28 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead To: Arnd Bergmann , Mans Rullgard References: Cc: Linux ARM , LKML From: Marc Gonzalez Message-ID: <034ff035-9c58-336d-c8f5-80bf40ad2fc1@free.fr> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:13:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org [ Dropping maintainers of other platforms ] On 08/01/2021 23:55, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > After v5.10 was officially declared an LTS kernel, I had a look around > the Arm platforms that look like they have not seen any patches from > their maintainers or users that are actually running the hardware for > at least five years (2015 or earlier). I made some statistics and lists > for my lwn.net article last year [1], so I'd thought I'd share a summary > here for discussion about what we should remove. As I found three > years ago when I removed several CPU architectures, it makes sense > to do this in bulk, to simplify a scripted search for device drivers, header > files and Kconfig options that become unused in the process. > > This is probably a mix of platforms that are completely unused and > those that just work, but I have no good way of knowing which one > it is. Without hearing back about these, I'd propose removing all of > these: > > * asm9260 -- added in 2014, no notable changes after 2015 > * axxia -- added in 2014, no notable changes after 2015 > * bcm/kona -- added in 2013, no notable changes after 2014 > * digicolor -- added in 2014, no notable changes after 2015 > * dove -- added in 2009, obsoleted by mach-mvebu in 2015 > * efm32 -- added in 2011, first Cortex-M, no notable changes after 2013 > * nspire -- added in 2013, no notable changes after 2015 > * picoxcell -- added in 2011, already queued for removal > * prima2 -- added in 20111, no notable changes since 2015 > * spear -- added in 2010, no notable changes since 2015 > * tango -- added in 2015, sporadic changes until 2017, but abandoned > * u300 -- added in 2009, no notable changes since 2013 > * vt8500 -- added in 2010, no notable changes since 2014 > * zx --added in 2015 for both 32, 2017 for 64 bit, no notable changes > > If any of the above are not dead yet[2], please let me know, > and we'll keep them. > > Then there are ARM platforms that are old but have still seen some work > in the past years. If I hear nothing, these will all stay, but if maintainers > may want to drop them anyway, I can help with that: > > * clps711x -- prehistoric, converted to multiplatform+DT in 2016, no > changes since > * cns3xxx -- added in 2010, last fixed in 2019, probably no users left > * ep93xx -- added in 2006, LinusW still working on it, any users left? > * footbridge -- added in prehistory, stable since ~2013, rmk and LinusW have one > * gemini -- added in 2009, LinusW still working on it > * hisi (hip01/hip05) -- servers added in 2013, replaced with arm64 in 2016 > * highbank -- added in 2011, no changes after 2015, but Andre still uses it > * iop32x -- added in 2006, no notable changes other than my cleanup, but > I think there are still users > * ixp4xx -- prehistoric, but LinusW and I are still working on it > * lpc18xx -- added in 2015, new dts in 2018, but few other changes > * lpc32xx -- added in 2010, multiplatform 2019, hardware is EOL > * mmp -- added in 2009, DT support is active, but board files might go > * moxart -- added in 2013, last Tested-by in 2017 > * mv78xx0 -- added in 2008, mostly stale but still users > (https://github.com/1000001101000/Debian_on_Buffalo) > * nomadik -- added in 2009, LinusW keeps fixing it, probably no other users > * oxnas -- added in 2016, but already old then, few changes later > * pxa -- prehistoric, but a few boards may still have users > * rpc -- prehistoric, but I think Russell still uses his machine > * sa1100 -- prehistoric, but rmk and LinusW sporadically working in it > > I also looked at non-ARM platforms while preparing for my article. Some of > these look like they are no longer actively maintained or used, but I'm not > doing anything about those unless the maintainers would like me to: > > * h8300: Steven Rostedt has repeatedly asked about it to be removed > or fixed in 2020 with no reply. This was killed before in 2013, added back > in 2015 but has been mostly stale again since 2016 > * c6x: Added in 2011, this has seen very few updates since, but > Mark still Acks patches when they come. Like most other DSP platforms, > the model of running Linux on a DSP appears to have been obsoleted > by using Linux on ARM with on-chip DSP cores running bare-metal code. > * sparc/sun4m: A patch for removing 32-bit Sun sparc support (not LEON) > is currently under review > * powerpc/cell: I'm the maintainer and I promised to send a patch to remove it. > it's in my backlog but I will get to it. This is separate from PS3, > which is actively > maintained and used; spufs will move to ps3 > * powerpc/chrp (32-bit rs6000, pegasos2): last updated in 2009 > * powerpc/amigaone: last updated in 2009 > * powerpc/maple: last updated in 2011 > * m68k/{apollo,hp300,sun3,q40} these are all presumably dead and have not > seen updates in many years (atari/amiga/mac and coldfire are very much > alive) > * mips/jazz: last updated in 2007 > * mips/cobalt: last updated in 2010 > > There might be some value in dropping old CPU support on architectures > and platforms that are almost exclusively used with more modern CPUs. > If there are only few users, those can still keep using v5.10 or v5.4 stable > kernels for a few more years. Again, I'm not doing anything about them, > except mention them since I did the research. > These are the oldest one by architecture, and they may have reached > their best-served-by-date: > > * 80486SX/DX: 80386 CPUs were dropped in 2012, and there are > indications that 486 have no users either on recent kernels. > There is still the Vortex86 family of SoCs, and the oldest of those were > 486SX-class, but all the modern ones are 586-class. > * Alpha 2106x: First generation that lacks some of the later features. > Since all Alphas are ancient by now, it's hard to tell whether these have > any fewer users. > * IA64 Merced: first generation Itanium (2001) was quickly replaced by > Itanium II in 2002. > * MIPS R3000/TX39xx: 32-bit MIPS-II generation, mostly superseded by > 64-bit MIPS-III (R4000 and higher) starting in 1991. arch/mips still > supports these in DECstation and Toshiba Txx9, but it appears that most > of those machines are of the 64-bit kind. Later MIPS32 such as 4Kc and > later are rather different and widely used. > * PowerPC 601 (from 1992) just got removed, later 60x, 4xx, 8xx etc > are apparently all still used. > * SuperH SH-2: We discussed removing SH-2 (not J2 or SH-4) > support in the past, I don't think there were any objections, but > nobody submitted a patch. > * 68000/68328 (Dragonball): these are less capable than the > 68020+ or the Coldfire MCF5xxx line and similar to the 68360 > that was removed in 2016. > > Arnd > > [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/838807/ > [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68 I didn't see Mans in the CC list. Not sure he's seen this message. As far as tango is concerned, I didn't keep any boards. Mans might have some tango3 and tango4 boards. Waiting for his take on the matter. I can point out some device-specific drivers that would become useless if tango support were dropped. Regards. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.2 required=3.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,MENTIONS_GIT_HOSTING, NICE_REPLY_A,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC37C433DB for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:15:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from merlin.infradead.org (merlin.infradead.org [205.233.59.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C82B82226A for ; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:15:08 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org C82B82226A Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=free.fr Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=lists.infradead.org; s=merlin.20170209; h=Sender:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:Cc:List-Subscribe:List-Help:List-Post:List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe:List-Id:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From: References:To:Subject:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Owner; bh=yp36rX9gMxisRW4FO8XfsgOW2XLRbZ+4aFLN7WtMU/U=; b=FNhlb7MW0wIxYPLwCy+wjNUyd RBnpgzxMRPrWQsbwrAMFd0CwUggZbXIBV8hXzgTDxKQ7jugkb4MKv1w34EqbJzMr1YJVpK3L65erd ZTWjM50EKBOCVLpTWWz3gjb5rdpf+hQs4EaSujmN24aNLQeJBwChISPtt6VUgSQoLPVf/6HICdGhQ A15U7jTeX5npZpcRsAijBVmZuJ+HZXlkGPkrsK3sQLXCvHuHDu4CajlDq4IlCjKORO4bRooZIaiEI BNq3rRGCrnYdPc8FqIdv8VhgJyDELyW7iJxDM6EjHJdxUNLQspDPtLQ8vfUEa/jPh1cpVj7e14m70 4Sh4OnPKw==; Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=merlin.infradead.org) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1kyx14-00014p-GD; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:13:50 +0000 Received: from smtp6-g21.free.fr ([2a01:e0c:1:1599::15]) by merlin.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.92.3 #3 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1kyx10-00012V-M4 for linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 13:13:48 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.91] (unknown [77.207.133.132]) (Authenticated sender: marc.w.gonzalez) by smtp6-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7647A78038E; Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:13:28 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Old platforms: bring out your dead To: Arnd Bergmann , Mans Rullgard References: From: Marc Gonzalez Message-ID: <034ff035-9c58-336d-c8f5-80bf40ad2fc1@free.fr> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 14:13:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210111_081346_874646_4D81CA0E X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 36.46 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: LKML , Linux ARM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org [ Dropping maintainers of other platforms ] On 08/01/2021 23:55, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > After v5.10 was officially declared an LTS kernel, I had a look around > the Arm platforms that look like they have not seen any patches from > their maintainers or users that are actually running the hardware for > at least five years (2015 or earlier). I made some statistics and lists > for my lwn.net article last year [1], so I'd thought I'd share a summary > here for discussion about what we should remove. As I found three > years ago when I removed several CPU architectures, it makes sense > to do this in bulk, to simplify a scripted search for device drivers, header > files and Kconfig options that become unused in the process. > > This is probably a mix of platforms that are completely unused and > those that just work, but I have no good way of knowing which one > it is. Without hearing back about these, I'd propose removing all of > these: > > * asm9260 -- added in 2014, no notable changes after 2015 > * axxia -- added in 2014, no notable changes after 2015 > * bcm/kona -- added in 2013, no notable changes after 2014 > * digicolor -- added in 2014, no notable changes after 2015 > * dove -- added in 2009, obsoleted by mach-mvebu in 2015 > * efm32 -- added in 2011, first Cortex-M, no notable changes after 2013 > * nspire -- added in 2013, no notable changes after 2015 > * picoxcell -- added in 2011, already queued for removal > * prima2 -- added in 20111, no notable changes since 2015 > * spear -- added in 2010, no notable changes since 2015 > * tango -- added in 2015, sporadic changes until 2017, but abandoned > * u300 -- added in 2009, no notable changes since 2013 > * vt8500 -- added in 2010, no notable changes since 2014 > * zx --added in 2015 for both 32, 2017 for 64 bit, no notable changes > > If any of the above are not dead yet[2], please let me know, > and we'll keep them. > > Then there are ARM platforms that are old but have still seen some work > in the past years. If I hear nothing, these will all stay, but if maintainers > may want to drop them anyway, I can help with that: > > * clps711x -- prehistoric, converted to multiplatform+DT in 2016, no > changes since > * cns3xxx -- added in 2010, last fixed in 2019, probably no users left > * ep93xx -- added in 2006, LinusW still working on it, any users left? > * footbridge -- added in prehistory, stable since ~2013, rmk and LinusW have one > * gemini -- added in 2009, LinusW still working on it > * hisi (hip01/hip05) -- servers added in 2013, replaced with arm64 in 2016 > * highbank -- added in 2011, no changes after 2015, but Andre still uses it > * iop32x -- added in 2006, no notable changes other than my cleanup, but > I think there are still users > * ixp4xx -- prehistoric, but LinusW and I are still working on it > * lpc18xx -- added in 2015, new dts in 2018, but few other changes > * lpc32xx -- added in 2010, multiplatform 2019, hardware is EOL > * mmp -- added in 2009, DT support is active, but board files might go > * moxart -- added in 2013, last Tested-by in 2017 > * mv78xx0 -- added in 2008, mostly stale but still users > (https://github.com/1000001101000/Debian_on_Buffalo) > * nomadik -- added in 2009, LinusW keeps fixing it, probably no other users > * oxnas -- added in 2016, but already old then, few changes later > * pxa -- prehistoric, but a few boards may still have users > * rpc -- prehistoric, but I think Russell still uses his machine > * sa1100 -- prehistoric, but rmk and LinusW sporadically working in it > > I also looked at non-ARM platforms while preparing for my article. Some of > these look like they are no longer actively maintained or used, but I'm not > doing anything about those unless the maintainers would like me to: > > * h8300: Steven Rostedt has repeatedly asked about it to be removed > or fixed in 2020 with no reply. This was killed before in 2013, added back > in 2015 but has been mostly stale again since 2016 > * c6x: Added in 2011, this has seen very few updates since, but > Mark still Acks patches when they come. Like most other DSP platforms, > the model of running Linux on a DSP appears to have been obsoleted > by using Linux on ARM with on-chip DSP cores running bare-metal code. > * sparc/sun4m: A patch for removing 32-bit Sun sparc support (not LEON) > is currently under review > * powerpc/cell: I'm the maintainer and I promised to send a patch to remove it. > it's in my backlog but I will get to it. This is separate from PS3, > which is actively > maintained and used; spufs will move to ps3 > * powerpc/chrp (32-bit rs6000, pegasos2): last updated in 2009 > * powerpc/amigaone: last updated in 2009 > * powerpc/maple: last updated in 2011 > * m68k/{apollo,hp300,sun3,q40} these are all presumably dead and have not > seen updates in many years (atari/amiga/mac and coldfire are very much > alive) > * mips/jazz: last updated in 2007 > * mips/cobalt: last updated in 2010 > > There might be some value in dropping old CPU support on architectures > and platforms that are almost exclusively used with more modern CPUs. > If there are only few users, those can still keep using v5.10 or v5.4 stable > kernels for a few more years. Again, I'm not doing anything about them, > except mention them since I did the research. > These are the oldest one by architecture, and they may have reached > their best-served-by-date: > > * 80486SX/DX: 80386 CPUs were dropped in 2012, and there are > indications that 486 have no users either on recent kernels. > There is still the Vortex86 family of SoCs, and the oldest of those were > 486SX-class, but all the modern ones are 586-class. > * Alpha 2106x: First generation that lacks some of the later features. > Since all Alphas are ancient by now, it's hard to tell whether these have > any fewer users. > * IA64 Merced: first generation Itanium (2001) was quickly replaced by > Itanium II in 2002. > * MIPS R3000/TX39xx: 32-bit MIPS-II generation, mostly superseded by > 64-bit MIPS-III (R4000 and higher) starting in 1991. arch/mips still > supports these in DECstation and Toshiba Txx9, but it appears that most > of those machines are of the 64-bit kind. Later MIPS32 such as 4Kc and > later are rather different and widely used. > * PowerPC 601 (from 1992) just got removed, later 60x, 4xx, 8xx etc > are apparently all still used. > * SuperH SH-2: We discussed removing SH-2 (not J2 or SH-4) > support in the past, I don't think there were any objections, but > nobody submitted a patch. > * 68000/68328 (Dragonball): these are less capable than the > 68020+ or the Coldfire MCF5xxx line and similar to the 68360 > that was removed in 2016. > > Arnd > > [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/838807/ > [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdf5EXo6I68 I didn't see Mans in the CC list. Not sure he's seen this message. As far as tango is concerned, I didn't keep any boards. Mans might have some tango3 and tango4 boards. Waiting for his take on the matter. I can point out some device-specific drivers that would become useless if tango support were dropped. Regards. _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel