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[79.242.51.99]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x15sm18554557wro.66.2021.02.14.01.58.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Feb 2021 01:58:52 -0800 (PST) From: David Hildenbrand Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [PATCH v17 07/10] mm: introduce memfd_secret system call to create "secret" memory areas Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:58:44 +0100 Message-Id: <052DACE9-986B-424C-AF8E-D6A4277DE635@redhat.com> References: <20210214091954.GM242749@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: <20210214091954.GM242749@kernel.org> To: Mike Rapoport X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18D52) Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=david@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Message-ID-Hash: QSSNBB5LJMXQSKZF5WFASGTUHYQTHOLR X-Message-ID-Hash: QSSNBB5LJMXQSKZF5WFASGTUHYQTHOLR X-MailFrom: david@redhat.com X-Mailman-Rule-Hits: nonmember-moderation X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation CC: David Hildenbrand , Michal Hocko , Mike Rapoport , Andrew Morton , Alexander Viro , Andy Lutomirski , Arnd Bergmann , Borislav Petkov , Catalin Marinas , Christopher Lameter , Dave Hansen , Elena Reshetova , "H. 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[79.242.51.99]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x15sm18554557wro.66.2021.02.14.01.58.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Feb 2021 01:58:52 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: David Hildenbrand Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [PATCH v17 07/10] mm: introduce memfd_secret system call to create "secret" memory areas Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:58:44 +0100 Message-Id: <052DACE9-986B-424C-AF8E-D6A4277DE635@redhat.com> References: <20210214091954.GM242749@kernel.org> Cc: David Hildenbrand , Michal Hocko , Mike Rapoport , Andrew Morton , Alexander Viro , Andy Lutomirski , Arnd Bergmann , Borislav Petkov , Catalin Marinas , Christopher Lameter , Dan Williams , Dave Hansen , Elena Reshetova , "H. Peter Anvin" , Ingo Molnar , James Bottomley , "Kirill A. Shutemov" , Matthew Wilcox , Mark Rutland , Michael Kerrisk , Palmer Dabbelt , Paul Walmsley , Peter Zijlstra , Rick Edgecombe , Roman Gushchin , Shakeel Butt , Shuah Khan , Thomas Gleixner , Tycho Andersen , Will Deacon , linux-api@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, x86@kernel.org, Hagen Paul Pfeifer , Palmer Dabbelt In-Reply-To: <20210214091954.GM242749@kernel.org> To: Mike Rapoport X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18D52) Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > Am 14.02.2021 um 10:20 schrieb Mike Rapoport : >=20 > =EF=BB=BFOn Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 10:18:19AM +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote= : >>> On 12.02.21 00:09, Mike Rapoport wrote: >>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 01:07:10PM +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>>> On 11.02.21 12:27, Mike Rapoport wrote: >>>>> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 10:01:32AM +0100, David Hildenbrand wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> So let's talk about the main user-visible differences to other memfd fi= les >>>> (especially, other purely virtual files like hugetlbfs). With secretmem= : >>>>=20 >>>> - File content can only be read/written via memory mappings. >>>> - File content cannot be swapped out. >>>>=20 >>>> I think there are still valid ways to modify file content using syscall= s: >>>> e.g., fallocate(PUNCH_HOLE). Things like truncate also seems to work ju= st >>>> fine. >>> These work perfectly with any file, so maybe we should have added >>> memfd_create as a flag to open(2) back then and now the secretmem file >>> descriptors? >>=20 >> I think open() vs memfd_create() makes sense: for open, the path specifie= s >> main properties (tmpfs, hugetlbfs, filesystem). On memfd, there is no suc= h >> path and the "type" has to be specified differently. >>=20 >> Also, open() might open existing files - memfd always creates new files. >=20 > Yes, but still open() returns a handle to a file and memfd_create() return= s > a handle to a file. The differences may be well hidden by e.g. O_MEMORY an= d > than features unique to memfd files will have their set of O_SOMETHING > flags. >=20 Let=E2=80=98s agree to disagree. > It's the same logic that says "we already have an interface that's close > enough and it's fine to add a bunch of new flags there". No, not quite. But let=E2=80=98s agree to disagree. >=20 > And here we come to the question "what are the differences that justify a > new system call?" and the answer to this is very subjective. And as such w= e > can continue bikeshedding forever. I think this fits into the existing memfd_create() syscall just fine, and I h= eard no compelling argument why it shouldn=E2=80=98t. 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[79.242.51.99]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x15sm18554557wro.66.2021.02.14.01.58.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 14 Feb 2021 01:58:52 -0800 (PST) From: David Hildenbrand Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [PATCH v17 07/10] mm: introduce memfd_secret system call to create "secret" memory areas Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 10:58:44 +0100 Message-Id: <052DACE9-986B-424C-AF8E-D6A4277DE635@redhat.com> References: <20210214091954.GM242749@kernel.org> In-Reply-To: <20210214091954.GM242749@kernel.org> To: Mike Rapoport X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18D52) Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CUSA124A263 smtp.mailfrom=david@redhat.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20210214_045859_827716_33E4E9E7 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 19.30 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Mark Rutland , Michal Hocko , David Hildenbrand , Peter Zijlstra , Catalin Marinas , Dave Hansen , linux-mm@kvack.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, "H. Peter Anvin" , Christopher Lameter , Shuah Khan , Thomas Gleixner , Elena Reshetova , linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, Tycho Andersen , linux-nvdimm@lists.01.org, Will Deacon , x86@kernel.org, Matthew Wilcox , Mike Rapoport , Ingo Molnar , Michael Kerrisk , Palmer Dabbelt , Arnd Bergmann , James Bottomley , Hagen Paul Pfeifer , Borislav Petkov , Alexander Viro , Andy Lutomirski , Paul Walmsley , "Kirill A. Shutemov" , Dan Williams , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-riscv@lists.infradead.org, Palmer Dabbelt , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, Shakeel Butt , Andrew Morton , Rick Edgecombe , Roman Gushchin Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org Cj4gQW0gMTQuMDIuMjAyMSB1bSAxMDoyMCBzY2hyaWViIE1pa2UgUmFwb3BvcnQgPHJwcHRAa2Vy bmVsLm9yZz46Cj4gCj4g77u/T24gRnJpLCBGZWIgMTIsIDIwMjEgYXQgMTA6MTg6MTlBTSArMDEw MCwgRGF2aWQgSGlsZGVuYnJhbmQgd3JvdGU6Cj4+PiBPbiAxMi4wMi4yMSAwMDowOSwgTWlrZSBS YXBvcG9ydCB3cm90ZToKPj4+IE9uIFRodSwgRmViIDExLCAyMDIxIGF0IDAxOjA3OjEwUE0gKzAx MDAsIERhdmlkIEhpbGRlbmJyYW5kIHdyb3RlOgo+Pj4+IE9uIDExLjAyLjIxIDEyOjI3LCBNaWtl IFJhcG9wb3J0IHdyb3RlOgo+Pj4+PiBPbiBUaHUsIEZlYiAxMSwgMjAyMSBhdCAxMDowMTozMkFN ICswMTAwLCBEYXZpZCBIaWxkZW5icmFuZCB3cm90ZToKPj4+PiAKPj4+PiBTbyBsZXQncyB0YWxr IGFib3V0IHRoZSBtYWluIHVzZXItdmlzaWJsZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyB0byBvdGhlciBtZW1mZCBm aWxlcwo+Pj4+IChlc3BlY2lhbGx5LCBvdGhlciBwdXJlbHkgdmlydHVhbCBmaWxlcyBsaWtlIGh1 Z2V0bGJmcykuIFdpdGggc2VjcmV0bWVtOgo+Pj4+IAo+Pj4+IC0gRmlsZSBjb250ZW50IGNhbiBv bmx5IGJlIHJlYWQvd3JpdHRlbiB2aWEgbWVtb3J5IG1hcHBpbmdzLgo+Pj4+IC0gRmlsZSBjb250 ZW50IGNhbm5vdCBiZSBzd2FwcGVkIG91dC4KPj4+PiAKPj4+PiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBz dGlsbCB2YWxpZCB3YXlzIHRvIG1vZGlmeSBmaWxlIGNvbnRlbnQgdXNpbmcgc3lzY2FsbHM6Cj4+ Pj4gZS5nLiwgZmFsbG9jYXRlKFBVTkNIX0hPTEUpLiBUaGluZ3MgbGlrZSB0cnVuY2F0ZSBhbHNv IHNlZW1zIHRvIHdvcmsganVzdAo+Pj4+IGZpbmUuCj4+PiBUaGVzZSB3b3JrIHBlcmZlY3RseSB3 aXRoIGFueSBmaWxlLCBzbyBtYXliZSB3ZSBzaG91bGQgaGF2ZSBhZGRlZAo+Pj4gbWVtZmRfY3Jl YXRlIGFzIGEgZmxhZyB0byBvcGVuKDIpIGJhY2sgdGhlbiBhbmQgbm93IHRoZSBzZWNyZXRtZW0g ZmlsZQo+Pj4gZGVzY3JpcHRvcnM/Cj4+IAo+PiBJIHRoaW5rIG9wZW4oKSB2cyBtZW1mZF9jcmVh dGUoKSBtYWtlcyBzZW5zZTogZm9yIG9wZW4sIHRoZSBwYXRoIHNwZWNpZmllcwo+PiBtYWluIHBy b3BlcnRpZXMgKHRtcGZzLCBodWdldGxiZnMsIGZpbGVzeXN0ZW0pLiBPbiBtZW1mZCwgdGhlcmUg aXMgbm8gc3VjaAo+PiBwYXRoIGFuZCB0aGUgInR5cGUiIGhhcyB0byBiZSBzcGVjaWZpZWQgZGlm ZmVyZW50bHkuCj4+IAo+PiBBbHNvLCBvcGVuKCkgbWlnaHQgb3BlbiBleGlzdGluZyBmaWxlcyAt IG1lbWZkIGFsd2F5cyBjcmVhdGVzIG5ldyBmaWxlcy4KPiAKPiBZZXMsIGJ1dCBzdGlsbCBvcGVu KCkgcmV0dXJucyBhIGhhbmRsZSB0byBhIGZpbGUgYW5kIG1lbWZkX2NyZWF0ZSgpIHJldHVybnMK PiBhIGhhbmRsZSB0byBhIGZpbGUuIFRoZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyBtYXkgYmUgd2VsbCBoaWRkZW4g YnkgZS5nLiBPX01FTU9SWSBhbmQKPiB0aGFuIGZlYXR1cmVzIHVuaXF1ZSB0byBtZW1mZCBmaWxl cyB3aWxsIGhhdmUgdGhlaXIgc2V0IG9mIE9fU09NRVRISU5HCj4gZmxhZ3MuCj4gCgpMZXTigJhz IGFncmVlIHRvIGRpc2FncmVlLgoKPiBJdCdzIHRoZSBzYW1lIGxvZ2ljIHRoYXQgc2F5cyAid2Ug YWxyZWFkeSBoYXZlIGFuIGludGVyZmFjZSB0aGF0J3MgY2xvc2UKPiBlbm91Z2ggYW5kIGl0J3Mg ZmluZSB0byBhZGQgYSBidW5jaCBvZiBuZXcgZmxhZ3MgdGhlcmUiLgoKTm8sIG5vdCBxdWl0ZS4g QnV0IGxldOKAmHMgYWdyZWUgdG8gZGlzYWdyZWUuCgo+IAo+IEFuZCBoZXJlIHdlIGNvbWUgdG8g dGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uICJ3aGF0IGFyZSB0aGUgZGlmZmVyZW5jZXMgdGhhdCBqdXN0aWZ5IGEKPiBu ZXcgc3lzdGVtIGNhbGw/IiBhbmQgdGhlIGFuc3dlciB0byB0aGlzIGlzIHZlcnkgc3ViamVjdGl2 ZS4gQW5kIGFzIHN1Y2ggd2UKPiBjYW4gY29udGludWUgYmlrZXNoZWRkaW5nIGZvcmV2ZXIuCgpJ IHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgZml0cyBpbnRvIHRoZSBleGlzdGluZyBtZW1mZF9jcmVhdGUoKSBzeXNjYWxs IGp1c3QgZmluZSwgYW5kIEkgaGVhcmQgbm8gY29tcGVsbGluZyBhcmd1bWVudCB3aHkgaXQgc2hv dWxkbuKAmHQuIFRoYXTigJhzIGFsbCBJIGNhbiBzYXkuCgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbGludXgtYXJtLWtlcm5lbCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QK bGludXgtYXJtLWtlcm5lbEBsaXN0cy5pbmZyYWRlYWQub3JnCmh0dHA6Ly9saXN0cy5pbmZyYWRl YWQub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbGludXgtYXJtLWtlcm5lbAo=