From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE2EC282DD for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:45:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD092173C for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="OT1Icl5u" Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1731741AbfDQRpD (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 13:45:03 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f195.google.com ([209.85.214.195]:36141 "EHLO mail-pl1-f195.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726365AbfDQRpD (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 13:45:03 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f195.google.com with SMTP id ck15so12388099plb.3; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:45:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=iiKewh/rfSv9TET3jU6nkn7AWCBEz5+mb4Gwkj8mwj8=; b=OT1Icl5ug+NAclWFwwjy4encfGqF8h6cQ+Sluh8LzmcZ7PDJwN1EgFXlFIUgiOWhv3 CdyxbET3pK6vk3eVE6CuZMYXEDZBkDGGS0j/EPXB7PkGD/NOQuXKFupb6p+NcuweE25U zSQgwg5NjcZJ6sJtwNWHBhcXJCP2pmcgCP9PRguBY4GjSzejO9PQXa/vMmQ7Pc7yKdS6 tduovyaAMGBZQaLuQngghondFXL+EQQVleQZ++7KcWxjU8TgbrwM37zs5xY/S5QIMxhe 58nzwPq5oTgFA4zTqspejrXFnGO1J+TMkYisCWw26t7w22hh5emAce2dBtovssrt//Df d0Ow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=iiKewh/rfSv9TET3jU6nkn7AWCBEz5+mb4Gwkj8mwj8=; b=OQeDrafRyPKzMHumxh69tP0+/Ygb/gQdpiPFvhcvfe0gq/CS5tQEQmOzQ/AhvUD6j5 GUnnJbYi39Zbv3EpbSWhr9tcpqF6t332IuFgSPAHBgjIgNrcLKGp1k/iP4TicgrR9Yhl ueN/RT47Vt0P18fT/1A0Y9QFlSXT1cjnma4emSZT59Eo4f3DrYw8lA5yhEzx0d4fYJrg 89EWRgMULgkscJjCiycWRaeYUQJRbWp+gFmvViX2yyvOxzrwgMqHqpTVkYRJLvt8pfio gUayhgdgpfLaBN0j5kaZ7UNdYsqzt9j9L2APTxU7DDRHvWJAWA1LBxfqXxdTorn9bqLb OXFg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUyHRq9N2bgCXydFHGKvQfMZEa0zvg/EPe+es3KBRnUZA7NnzD+ TB+Sa6rrylMIMagh3w/RChs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzfMmBcNUH3fJFzGd3r9yH7kGevsQ52l1TqCRzwV4eMJos/uHwMz4Wl+hkhnB1q+aRwaHSPBg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6bc7:: with SMTP id m7mr42510170plt.146.1555523101228; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.33.115.113] ([66.170.99.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v188sm81987353pgb.7.2019.04.17.10.44.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v9 03/13] mm: Add support for eXclusive Page Frame Ownership (XPFO) From: Nadav Amit In-Reply-To: <20190417172632.GA95485@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:44:56 -0700 Cc: Khalid Aziz , juergh@gmail.com, Tycho Andersen , jsteckli@amazon.de, keescook@google.com, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk , Juerg Haefliger , deepa.srinivasan@oracle.com, chris.hyser@oracle.com, tyhicks@canonical.com, David Woodhouse , Andrew Cooper , jcm@redhat.com, Boris Ostrovsky , iommu , X86 ML , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, "open list:DOCUMENTATION" , Linux List Kernel Mailing , Linux-MM , LSM List , Khalid Aziz , Linus Torvalds , Andrew Morton , Thomas Gleixner , Andy Lutomirski , Peter Zijlstra , Dave Hansen , Borislav Petkov , "H. Peter Anvin" , Arjan van de Ven , Greg Kroah-Hartman Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <063753CC-5D83-4789-B594-019048DE22D9@gmail.com> References: <20190417161042.GA43453@gmail.com> <20190417170918.GA68678@gmail.com> <56A175F6-E5DA-4BBD-B244-53B786F27B7F@gmail.com> <20190417172632.GA95485@gmail.com> To: Ingo Molnar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org > On Apr 17, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: >=20 >=20 > * Nadav Amit wrote: >=20 >>> On Apr 17, 2019, at 10:09 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> * Khalid Aziz wrote: >>>=20 >>>>> I.e. the original motivation of the XPFO patches was to prevent = execution=20 >>>>> of direct kernel mappings. Is this motivation still present if = those=20 >>>>> mappings are non-executable? >>>>>=20 >>>>> (Sorry if this has been asked and answered in previous = discussions.) >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Ingo, >>>>=20 >>>> That is a good question. Because of the cost of XPFO, we have to be = very >>>> sure we need this protection. The paper from Vasileios, Michalis = and >>>> Angelos - = , >>>> does go into how ret2dir attacks can bypass SMAP/SMEP in sections = 6.1 >>>> and 6.2. >>>=20 >>> So it would be nice if you could generally summarize external = arguments=20 >>> when defending a patchset, instead of me having to dig through a PDF=20= >>> which not only causes me to spend time that you probably already = spent=20 >>> reading that PDF, but I might also interpret it incorrectly. ;-) >>>=20 >>> The PDF you cited says this: >>>=20 >>> "Unfortunately, as shown in Table 1, the W^X prop-erty is not = enforced=20 >>> in many platforms, including x86-64. In our example, the content = of=20 >>> user address 0xBEEF000 is also accessible through kernel address=20 >>> 0xFFFF87FF9F080000 as plain, executable code." >>>=20 >>> Is this actually true of modern x86-64 kernels? We've locked down = W^X=20 >>> protections in general. >>=20 >> As I was curious, I looked at the paper. Here is a quote from it: >>=20 >> "In x86-64, however, the permissions of physmap are not in sane = state. >> Kernels up to v3.8.13 violate the W^X property by mapping the entire = region >> as =E2=80=9Creadable, writeable, and executable=E2=80=9D (RWX)=E2=80=94= only very recent kernels >> (=E2=89=A5v3.9) use the more conservative RW mapping.=E2=80=9D >=20 > But v3.8.13 is a 5+ years old kernel, it doesn't count as a "modern"=20= > kernel in any sense of the word. For any proposed patchset with=20 > significant complexity and non-trivial costs the benchmark version=20 > threshold is the "current upstream kernel". >=20 > So does that quote address my followup questions: >=20 >> Is this actually true of modern x86-64 kernels? We've locked down W^X >> protections in general. >>=20 >> I.e. this conclusion: >>=20 >> "Therefore, by simply overwriting kfptr with 0xFFFF87FF9F080000 and >> triggering the kernel to dereference it, an attacker can directly >> execute shell code with kernel privileges." >>=20 >> ... appears to be predicated on imperfect W^X protections on the = x86-64 >> kernel. >>=20 >> Do such holes exist on the latest x86-64 kernel? If yes, is there a >> reason to believe that these W^X holes cannot be fixed, or that any = fix >> would be more expensive than XPFO? >=20 > ? >=20 > What you are proposing here is a XPFO patch-set against recent kernels=20= > with significant runtime overhead, so my questions about the W^X holes=20= > are warranted. >=20 Just to clarify - I am an innocent bystander and have no part in this = work. I was just looking (again) at the paper, as I was curious due to the = recent patches that I sent that improve W^X protection. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Nadav Amit Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v9 03/13] mm: Add support for eXclusive Page Frame Ownership (XPFO) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:44:56 -0700 Message-ID: <063753CC-5D83-4789-B594-019048DE22D9@gmail.com> References: <20190417161042.GA43453@gmail.com> <20190417170918.GA68678@gmail.com> <56A175F6-E5DA-4BBD-B244-53B786F27B7F@gmail.com> <20190417172632.GA95485@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: In-Reply-To: <20190417172632.GA95485@gmail.com> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org To: Ingo Molnar Cc: Khalid Aziz , juergh@gmail.com, Tycho Andersen , jsteckli@amazon.de, keescook@google.com, Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk , Juerg Haefliger , deepa.srinivasan@oracle.com, chris.hyser@oracle.com, tyhicks@canonical.com, David Woodhouse , Andrew Cooper , jcm@redhat.com, Boris Ostrovsky , iommu , X86 ML , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, "open list:DOCUMENTATION" , Linux List Kernel Mailing , Linux-MM , LSM List , Khalid Aziz List-Id: iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org > On Apr 17, 2019, at 10:26 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: >=20 >=20 > * Nadav Amit wrote: >=20 >>> On Apr 17, 2019, at 10:09 AM, Ingo Molnar wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> * Khalid Aziz wrote: >>>=20 >>>>> I.e. the original motivation of the XPFO patches was to prevent = execution=20 >>>>> of direct kernel mappings. Is this motivation still present if = those=20 >>>>> mappings are non-executable? >>>>>=20 >>>>> (Sorry if this has been asked and answered in previous = discussions.) >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Ingo, >>>>=20 >>>> That is a good question. Because of the cost of XPFO, we have to be = very >>>> sure we need this protection. The paper from Vasileios, Michalis = and >>>> Angelos - = , >>>> does go into how ret2dir attacks can bypass SMAP/SMEP in sections = 6.1 >>>> and 6.2. >>>=20 >>> So it would be nice if you could generally summarize external = arguments=20 >>> when defending a patchset, instead of me having to dig through a PDF=20= >>> which not only causes me to spend time that you probably already = spent=20 >>> reading that PDF, but I might also interpret it incorrectly. ;-) >>>=20 >>> The PDF you cited says this: >>>=20 >>> "Unfortunately, as shown in Table 1, the W^X prop-erty is not = enforced=20 >>> in many platforms, including x86-64. In our example, the content = of=20 >>> user address 0xBEEF000 is also accessible through kernel address=20 >>> 0xFFFF87FF9F080000 as plain, executable code." >>>=20 >>> Is this actually true of modern x86-64 kernels? We've locked down = W^X=20 >>> protections in general. >>=20 >> As I was curious, I looked at the paper. Here is a quote from it: >>=20 >> "In x86-64, however, the permissions of physmap are not in sane = state. >> Kernels up to v3.8.13 violate the W^X property by mapping the entire = region >> as =E2=80=9Creadable, writeable, and executable=E2=80=9D (RWX)=E2=80=94= only very recent kernels >> (=E2=89=A5v3.9) use the more conservative RW mapping.=E2=80=9D >=20 > But v3.8.13 is a 5+ years old kernel, it doesn't count as a "modern"=20= > kernel in any sense of the word. For any proposed patchset with=20 > significant complexity and non-trivial costs the benchmark version=20 > threshold is the "current upstream kernel". >=20 > So does that quote address my followup questions: >=20 >> Is this actually true of modern x86-64 kernels? We've locked down W^X >> protections in general. >>=20 >> I.e. this conclusion: >>=20 >> "Therefore, by simply overwriting kfptr with 0xFFFF87FF9F080000 and >> triggering the kernel to dereference it, an attacker can directly >> execute shell code with kernel privileges." >>=20 >> ... appears to be predicated on imperfect W^X protections on the = x86-64 >> kernel. >>=20 >> Do such holes exist on the latest x86-64 kernel? If yes, is there a >> reason to believe that these W^X holes cannot be fixed, or that any = fix >> would be more expensive than XPFO? >=20 > ? >=20 > What you are proposing here is a XPFO patch-set against recent kernels=20= > with significant runtime overhead, so my questions about the W^X holes=20= > are warranted. >=20 Just to clarify - I am an innocent bystander and have no part in this = work. I was just looking (again) at the paper, as I was curious due to the = recent patches that I sent that improve W^X protection. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5928C282DF for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail.linuxfoundation.org (mail.linuxfoundation.org [140.211.169.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B567E2073F for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="OT1Icl5u" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org B567E2073F Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=iommu-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Received: from mail.linux-foundation.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A885E1A; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:45:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30B60DC3 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:45:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: whitelisted by SQLgrey-1.7.6 Received: from mail-pl1-f193.google.com (mail-pl1-f193.google.com [209.85.214.193]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B1E8880 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:45:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pl1-f193.google.com with SMTP id d1so12357972plj.8 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:45:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=iiKewh/rfSv9TET3jU6nkn7AWCBEz5+mb4Gwkj8mwj8=; b=OT1Icl5ug+NAclWFwwjy4encfGqF8h6cQ+Sluh8LzmcZ7PDJwN1EgFXlFIUgiOWhv3 CdyxbET3pK6vk3eVE6CuZMYXEDZBkDGGS0j/EPXB7PkGD/NOQuXKFupb6p+NcuweE25U zSQgwg5NjcZJ6sJtwNWHBhcXJCP2pmcgCP9PRguBY4GjSzejO9PQXa/vMmQ7Pc7yKdS6 tduovyaAMGBZQaLuQngghondFXL+EQQVleQZ++7KcWxjU8TgbrwM37zs5xY/S5QIMxhe 58nzwPq5oTgFA4zTqspejrXFnGO1J+TMkYisCWw26t7w22hh5emAce2dBtovssrt//Df d0Ow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=iiKewh/rfSv9TET3jU6nkn7AWCBEz5+mb4Gwkj8mwj8=; b=sxlH4pjyzUq9Cmt0NmaXqd0y/pMt1VkO3sNrFRzgrIg4t5ilnvphPzzT8CIjVYma2Y vWohfqAoaG6FfRmmUq7v43s7ZZqddqo3exQa4wsWHnNO3mAZ4+DzuD/eO9GDsVXVO0D0 yPFgGwIiaqHr+nSzkIBMsHhhtw6YNm1KJJBXmgx4ULdfRauv8x6oPfmTCKzAod+WPGQe rmG+P5tf5VzBI5iJiVP+djar+cLiPKik4/xlqiNuGmIjyw8c1YW7fSHzbxsN2zcoNNoC aUyZEOSGrmHQd1GimtIxashhH1arF/yrIuvY6Mgzk+fhUm3aI9XBeRF3v3bQMsxUo6oB MSvg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXH1b/nrc8edYt2ul5iGEKUw5lyXTWSkPU2W0z2uN2YZtjBPUIZ k0/RPOfzoqNvi3n64mSTtJA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzfMmBcNUH3fJFzGd3r9yH7kGevsQ52l1TqCRzwV4eMJos/uHwMz4Wl+hkhnB1q+aRwaHSPBg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6bc7:: with SMTP id m7mr42510170plt.146.1555523101228; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.33.115.113] ([66.170.99.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v188sm81987353pgb.7.2019.04.17.10.44.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:44:58 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v9 03/13] mm: Add support for eXclusive Page Frame Ownership (XPFO) From: Nadav Amit In-Reply-To: <20190417172632.GA95485@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 10:44:56 -0700 Message-Id: <063753CC-5D83-4789-B594-019048DE22D9@gmail.com> References: <20190417161042.GA43453@gmail.com> <20190417170918.GA68678@gmail.com> <56A175F6-E5DA-4BBD-B244-53B786F27B7F@gmail.com> <20190417172632.GA95485@gmail.com> To: Ingo Molnar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Cc: Dave Hansen , "open list:DOCUMENTATION" , Linux-MM , Khalid Aziz , deepa.srinivasan@oracle.com, "H. Peter Anvin" , Thomas Gleixner , Tycho Andersen , X86 ML , iommu , jsteckli@amazon.de, Arjan van de Ven , Peter Zijlstra , Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk , jcm@redhat.com, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Borislav Petkov , Andy Lutomirski , Boris Ostrovsky , chris.hyser@oracle.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, Khalid Aziz , juergh@gmail.com, Andrew Cooper , Linux List Kernel Mailing , tyhicks@canonical.com, LSM List , Juerg Haefliger , keescook@google.com, Andrew Morton , Linus Torvalds , David Woodhouse X-BeenThere: iommu@lists.linux-foundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues for Linux IOMMU support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: iommu-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Errors-To: iommu-bounces@lists.linux-foundation.org Message-ID: <20190417174456.hX8ZGNXr6kunz3KDdX249FrhRy-kW8I2aORMbS82qI8@z> 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Peter Anvin" , Thomas Gleixner , Tycho Andersen , X86 ML , iommu , jsteckli@amazon.de, Arjan van de Ven , Peter Zijlstra , Konrad Rzeszutek Wilk , jcm@redhat.com, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Borislav Petkov , Andy Lutomirski , Boris Ostrovsky , chris.hyser@oracle.com, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, Khalid Aziz , juergh@gmail.com, Andrew Cooper , Linux List Kernel Mailing , tyhicks@canonical.com, LSM List , Juerg Haefliger , keescook@google.com, Andrew Morton , Linus Torvalds , David Woodhouse Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+infradead-linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org PiBPbiBBcHIgMTcsIDIwMTksIGF0IDEwOjI2IEFNLCBJbmdvIE1vbG5hciA8bWluZ29Aa2VybmVs Lm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gCj4gCj4gKiBOYWRhdiBBbWl0IDxuYWRhdi5hbWl0QGdtYWlsLmNvbT4g d3JvdGU6Cj4gCj4+PiBPbiBBcHIgMTcsIDIwMTksIGF0IDEwOjA5IEFNLCBJbmdvIE1vbG5hciA8 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