From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1A9FC43441 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 01:52:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6381C2077B for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 01:52:34 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 6381C2077B Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=cs.ucla.edu Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1730058AbeKLLnW (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:43:22 -0500 Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:38568 "EHLO zimbra.cs.ucla.edu" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1729780AbeKLLnW (ORCPT ); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:43:22 -0500 X-Greylist: delayed 459 seconds by postgrey-1.27 at vger.kernel.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 06:43:21 EST Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E610C160093; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id UFukRyYj5VgG; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26ADE160098; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id DqQtkmm0HEOI; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-23-242-74-103.socal.res.rr.com [23.242.74.103]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CAA0B160093; Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Official Linux system wrapper library? To: Daniel Colascione , Florian Weimer Cc: "Michael Kerrisk (man-pages)" , linux-kernel , Joel Fernandes , Linux API , Willy Tarreau , Vlastimil Babka , Carlos O'Donell , "libc-alpha@sourceware.org" References: <877ehjx447.fsf@oldenburg.str.redhat.com> From: Paul Eggert Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <11149279-14f7-68b4-dc5e-d90924d40d0c@cs.ucla.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 17:44:52 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Daniel Colascione wrote: > This resistance to exposing the capabilities of > the system as they are, even in flawed and warty form, is what I meant > by "misplaced idealism" in my previous message. With my application-developer hat on I prefer some resistance to flaws and warts, as the resistance gives me a better feel for which functions are problematic and which can be used more reliably. If glibc is missing Linux syscall functionality that I really need then I can use syscall (with the usual caveats) and I've done that on occasion (and have regretted it later too :-). It is helpful for glibc to prefer mild curation to slavishly copying an API that can be a bit helter-skelter at times.