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From: Andrei Popa <andrei.popa@i-neo.ro>
To: Andrew Morton <akpm@osdl.org>
Cc: Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>,
	Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de>,
	Marc Haber <mh+linux-kernel@zugschlus.de>,
	Martin Michlmayr <tbm@cyrius.com>
Subject: Re: 2.6.19 file content corruption on ext3
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:26:54 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1166434014.6911.9.camel@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20061218011801.04ec66be.akpm@osdl.org>


On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 01:18 -0800, Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:22:42 +1100
> Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> 
> > Andrew Morton wrote:
> > > On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:51:52 +1100
> > > Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > >>I think the problem Andrew identified is real.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I don't.  In fact I don't think I described any problem (well, I tried to,
> > > but then I contradicted myself).
> > 
> > By saying that there shouldn't be any dirty ptes if there are no
> > dirty buffers? But in that case the _page_ shouldn't be dirty either,
> > so that clear_page_dirty would be redundant. But presumably it isn't.
> 
> I don't follow that.
> 
> The linkage between pte-dirtiness and buffer_heads is a bit hard to follow
> without also considering page-dirtiness.
> 
> > > Six hours here of fsx-linux plus high memory pressure on SMP on 1k
> > > blocksize ext3, mainline.  Zero failures.  It's unlikely that this testing
> > > would pass, yet people running normal workloads are able to easily trigger
> > > failures.  I suspect we're looking in the wrong place.
> > 
> > Yes I could believe it the corruption is caused by something else
> > completely.
> 
> Think so.  We do have a problem here, but only on threaded apps, I believe.
> rtorrent doesn't appear to be threaded, and the bug is hit on non-preempt
> UP.


ierdnac ~ # uname -a
Linux ierdnac 2.6.20-rc1 #2 SMP PREEMPT Mon Dec 18 11:01:52 EET 2006
i686 Genuine Intel(R) CPU           T2050  @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel
GNU/Linux


and the other person who had corruption with rtorrent has also SMP and
PREEMPT.


> 
> > >>The issue is the disconnect between the pte dirtiness and a filesystem
> > >>bringing buffers clean.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Really?  The dirtying direction goes pte_dirty->PG_dirty->BH_Dirty and the
> > > cleaning direction goes !BH_Dirty->!PG_dirty->!pte_dirty.  That's pretty
> > > simple, setting aside races.
> > > 
> > > In the try_to_free_buffers case there's a large time inverval between
> > > !BH_Dirty and !PG_dirty, but that shouldn't affect anything.
> > 
> > After try_to_free_buffers detaches the buffers from the page, a
> > pagefault can come in, and mark the pte writeable, then set_page_dirty
> > (which finds no buffers, so only sets PG_dirty).
> > 
> > The page can now get dirtied through this mapping.
> > 
> > try_to_free_buffers then goes on to clean the page and ptes.
> 
> try_to_free_buffers() isn't called against a page which doesn't have
> buffers.  It'll oops.
> 
> > Were you testing with preempt?
> 
> nope, just SMP.
> 


  reply	other threads:[~2006-12-18  9:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 337+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-12-17  0:13 2.6.19 file content corruption on ext3 Andrei Popa
2006-12-17 12:06 ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-17 12:19   ` Marc Haber
2006-12-17 12:32   ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-17 13:39   ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-17 23:40     ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-18  1:02       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18  1:22       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18  1:29         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18  1:57           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18  4:51             ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-18  5:43               ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-18  7:22                 ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-18  9:18                   ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-18  9:26                     ` Andrei Popa [this message]
2006-12-18  9:42                     ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-19  8:51                 ` Marc Haber
2006-12-19  9:28                   ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-28 18:05                   ` Marc Haber
2006-12-28 19:00                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28 19:05                       ` Petri Kaukasoina
2006-12-28 19:21                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28 19:39                           ` Dave Jones
2006-12-28 20:10                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-12-29  9:23                             ` maximilian attems
2006-12-29 15:02                               ` Dave Jones
2006-12-29 18:52                                 ` maximilian attems
2006-12-29 19:14                                   ` Dave Jones
2006-12-28 21:24                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28 21:36                         ` Russell King
2006-12-28 22:37                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28 22:50                           ` David Miller
2006-12-28 23:01                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29  1:38                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29  1:59                               ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-28 23:36                           ` Anton Altaparmakov
2006-12-28 23:54                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29 17:49                       ` Guillaume Chazarain
2006-12-18  5:50               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18  7:16                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-18  7:17                   ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-18  9:30                   ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-18  7:30                 ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-18  9:19                 ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-18  9:38                   ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-18 10:00                     ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-18 10:11                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-18 10:49                         ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-18 15:24                           ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-18 15:32                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-18 15:47                               ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-18 16:55       ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-18 18:03         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 18:24           ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-18 18:35             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 19:04               ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-18 19:10                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-18 19:18                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 19:44                   ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-18 20:14                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 20:41                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 21:11                         ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-18 22:00                           ` Alessandro Suardi
2006-12-18 22:45                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19  0:13                               ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-19  0:29                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 22:32                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 23:48                             ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-19  0:04                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19  0:29                                 ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-19  0:57                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19  1:21                                     ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-19  1:44                                       ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-19  1:54                                         ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-19  2:04                                           ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-19  8:05                                           ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-19  8:24                                             ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-19  8:34                                               ` Pekka Enberg
2006-12-19  9:13                                               ` Marc Haber
2006-12-19  1:50                                     ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-19  1:03                               ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-18 22:34                         ` Gene Heskett
2006-12-22 17:27                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-18 21:43                       ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-18 21:49                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19 23:42                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20  0:23                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-20  9:01                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20  9:12                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20  9:39                             ` Arjan van de Ven
2006-12-20 11:26                               ` [PATCH] mm: fix page_mkclean_one (was: 2.6.19 file content corruption on ext3) Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 11:39                                 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-12-20 11:42                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 12:12                                     ` Jesper Juhl
2006-12-20 13:00                                 ` Hugh Dickins
2006-12-20 13:56                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 17:03                                     ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-20 17:35                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-20 17:53                                         ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-20 19:01                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-20 19:50                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-20 20:22                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 21:55                                               ` Dave Kleikamp
2006-12-20 22:25                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-20 22:59                                                   ` Dave Kleikamp
2006-12-20 22:15                                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 22:20                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 22:49                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-20 23:03                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-21  9:16                                                     ` Martin Schwidefsky
2006-12-21  9:20                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-21  9:26                                                         ` Martin Schwidefsky
2006-12-21 20:01                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28  0:00                                                           ` Martin Schwidefsky
2006-12-28  0:42                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28  0:52                                                               ` [PATCH] mm: fix page_mkclean_one David Miller
2006-12-21  2:36                                                 ` [PATCH] mm: fix page_mkclean_one (was: 2.6.19 file content corruption on ext3) Trond Myklebust
2006-12-21  8:10                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 23:24                                               ` David Chinner
2006-12-20 23:55                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21  1:20                                                   ` David Chinner
2006-12-20 23:32                                               ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-20 23:55                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21  0:11                                                   ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-21  0:22                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21  0:24                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21 15:48                                                         ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-21 16:58                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21  0:43                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21  1:20                                                         ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-21  2:54                                                   ` Trond Myklebust
2006-12-21 17:19                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21  7:32                                               ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-21  7:53                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21  8:38                                                   ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-21  8:59                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-21  9:17                                                   ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-21  9:27                                                     ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-22  4:20                                                       ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-22  4:54                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-22 10:00                                                           ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 10:06                                                             ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 10:10                                                               ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 11:07                                                                 ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 15:30                                                                 ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-22 17:11                                                                   ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 10:17                                                             ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-22 11:12                                                               ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 12:24                                                               ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-22 12:32                                                                 ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 12:59                                                                   ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 13:25                                                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-22 13:29                                                                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-22 17:56                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-22 19:20                                                                       ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-24  8:10                                                                         ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-24  8:43                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-24  8:57                                                                             ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-24  9:26                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-24 12:14                                                                               ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-24 12:26                                                                                 ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-24 12:30                                                                                   ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-24 12:31                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-24 16:45                                                                                   ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-24 17:16                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-24 18:07                                                                                       ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-24 18:37                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-24 19:18                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-24 20:55                                                                                           ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-26 10:31                                                                                           ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-26 19:26                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-27 12:32                                                                                               ` Jari Sundell
2006-12-27 12:44                                                                                               ` valdyn
2006-12-27 13:33                                                                                                 ` Jari Sundell
2007-01-07  2:06                                                                                               ` Tom Lanyon
2007-01-07  5:58                                                                                                 ` Tom Lanyon
2007-01-07  6:05                                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-24 21:21                                                                                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2006-12-24 19:27                                                                                       ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-24 19:35                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-24 20:10                                                                                           ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-24 20:24                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-24 20:30                                                                                               ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-26 17:51                                                                                               ` Al Viro
2006-12-26 17:58                                                                                                 ` Al Viro
2006-12-24 22:01                                                                                           ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-24 14:05                                                                               ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-26 16:17                                                                             ` Tobias Diedrich
2006-12-27  4:55                                                                               ` [PATCH] mm: fix page_mkclean_one David Miller
2006-12-27  7:00                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-27  8:39                                                                                   ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-28  0:16                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28  0:39                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28  0:52                                                                                     ` David Miller
2006-12-28  3:04                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28  4:32                                                                                         ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-28  4:53                                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28  5:20                                                                                             ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-28  5:41                                                                                               ` David Miller
2006-12-28  5:47                                                                                                 ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-28 10:13                                                                                               ` Russell King
2006-12-28 14:15                                                                                                 ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-28 15:53                                                                                                   ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-28 17:27                                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28 18:44                                                                                                   ` Russell King
2006-12-28 19:01                                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
     [not found]                                                                                             ` <97a0a9ac0612272115g4cce1f08n3c3c8498a6076bd5@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                                                                               ` <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612272120180.4473@woody.osdl.org>
2006-12-28  5:38                                                                                                 ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-28  9:30                                                                                                   ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-28 10:16                                                                                                   ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-28 10:49                                                                                                     ` Russell King
2006-12-28 14:56                                                                                                       ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-28  5:58                                                                                                 ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-28 17:08                                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28  5:55                                                                                         ` Chen, Kenneth W
2006-12-28  6:10                                                                                           ` Chen, Kenneth W
2006-12-28  6:27                                                                                             ` David Miller
2006-12-28 17:10                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28  9:15                                                                                         ` Zhang, Yanmin
2006-12-28 17:15                                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28 11:50                                                                                         ` Petri Kaukasoina
2006-12-28 15:09                                                                                         ` Guillaume Chazarain
2006-12-28 19:19                                                                                           ` Guillaume Chazarain
2006-12-28 19:28                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28 19:45                                                                                               ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-28 20:14                                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-28 22:38                                                                                                   ` David Miller
2006-12-29  2:50                                                                                                     ` Segher Boessenkool
2006-12-29  6:48                                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29  8:58                                                                                                         ` Ok, explained.. (was Re: [PATCH] mm: fix page_mkclean_one) Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29 10:48                                                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29 11:16                                                                                                             ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-29 12:09                                                                                                             ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-29 17:25                                                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29 12:31                                                                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2006-12-29 13:08                                                                                                             ` Martin Johansson
2006-12-29 14:08                                                                                                             ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-29 15:17                                                                                                               ` Stephen Clark
2006-12-29 15:54                                                                                                                 ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-29 22:16                                                                                                             ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-29 22:24                                                                                                               ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-29 22:42                                                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29 23:32                                                                                                                 ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-29 23:59                                                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-30  0:05                                                                                                                   ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-30  0:50                                                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29 23:51                                                                                                                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-30  0:11                                                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-30  0:33                                                                                                                     ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-30  0:58                                                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-30  1:16                                                                                                                         ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-29 15:27                                                                                                           ` Theodore Tso
2006-12-29 17:51                                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-29 12:19                                                                                                         ` [patch] fix data corruption bug in __block_write_full_page() Ingo Molnar
2007-01-02 11:20                                                                                                           ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-01-02 12:06                                                                                                             ` Ingo Molnar
2007-01-02 12:16                                                                                                               ` Christoph Hellwig
2006-12-28 22:35                                                                                                 ` [PATCH] mm: fix page_mkclean_one Mike Galbraith
2006-12-22 15:01                                                                   ` [PATCH] mm: fix page_mkclean_one (was: 2.6.19 file content corruption on ext3) Patrick Mau
2006-12-23  8:15                                                                   ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-22 15:08                                                           ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-22 10:01                                                         ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-22 15:16                                                           ` Gordon Farquharson
2006-12-21 12:30                                                   ` Russell King
2006-12-21 12:36                                                     ` Russell King
2006-12-21 11:21                                               ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-20 22:11                                       ` Russell King
2006-12-21  8:18                                         ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-21  9:54                                           ` Russell King
2006-12-20 14:55                                 ` Martin Schwidefsky
2006-12-20 14:27                             ` 2.6.19 file content corruption on ext3 Martin Schwidefsky
2006-12-20  9:32                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 14:15                         ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-20 14:23                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20 16:30                             ` Andrei Popa
2006-12-20 16:36                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19  7:38                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19  4:36           ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-19  6:34             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19  6:51               ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-19  7:26                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19  8:04                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19  9:00                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19  9:05                       ` Peter Zijlstra
     [not found]                     ` <4587B762.2030603@yahoo.com.au>
2006-12-19 10:32                       ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-19 10:42                         ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-19 10:47                         ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-19 10:52                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19 10:58                           ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-19 11:51                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19 10:55                         ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-19 16:51                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19 17:43                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19 18:59                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19 21:30                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19 22:51                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19 22:58                                 ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-19 23:06                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19 23:07                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-20  0:03                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-20  0:18                                       ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-20 18:02                               ` Stephen Clark
2006-12-20  5:56                             ` Jari Sundell
2006-12-19 21:56                           ` Florian Weimer
2006-12-21 13:03                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-21 20:40                             ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-19 20:03               ` dean gaudet
2006-12-19  7:22             ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-19  7:59               ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-19  8:14                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-12-19  9:40                   ` Nick Piggin
2006-12-19 16:46                     ` Linus Torvalds
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-12-07 15:57 Marc Haber
2006-12-07 16:50 ` Phillip Susi
2006-12-08  1:38   ` Fernando Luis Vázquez Cao
2006-12-08 16:42     ` Marc Haber
2006-12-09 10:47       ` Jan Kara
2006-12-11 19:07         ` Marc Haber
2006-12-14 12:03           ` Jan Kara
2006-12-15  9:30             ` Marc Haber
2006-12-16  8:29               ` Marc Haber
2006-12-09 23:46       ` Mike Galbraith
2006-12-11  9:31         ` Marc Haber
2006-12-09  9:26   ` Marc Haber
2006-12-16 18:43     ` Martin Michlmayr
2006-12-16 19:18       ` Hugh Dickins
2006-12-16 19:18         ` Hugh Dickins
2006-12-16 21:29         ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-16 21:29           ` Peter Zijlstra
2006-12-16 23:08           ` Hugh Dickins
2006-12-16 23:08             ` Hugh Dickins
2006-12-17 13:52         ` Jan Kara
2006-12-17 13:52           ` Jan Kara
2006-12-22 17:05       ` Marc Haber
2006-12-16 18:31 ` Florian Weimer
2006-12-17 11:52   ` Andrew Morton
2006-12-22 13:30 ` Daniel Drake
2006-12-22 17:03   ` Marc Haber

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