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From: Bernd Petrovitsch <bernd@firmix.at>
To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
Cc: "linux-os (Dick Johnson)" <linux-os@analogic.com>,
	Manu Abraham <abraham.manu@gmail.com>,
	Mws <mws@twisted-brains.org>, v j <vj.linux@gmail.com>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: GPL vs non-GPL device drivers
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:25:57 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1171617957.23981.5.camel@tara.firmix.at> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200702160819.l1G8JnmZ013706@turing-police.cc.vt.edu>

On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 03:19 -0500, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote:
[...]
> Actually, the *real* reason embedded systems end up using old versions is
> much simpler.

ACK.

> They start developing their code on release 2.X.Y, and they keep their code
> out-of-tree.  Then, when they come up for air, and it's at 2.X.(Y+15), they
> discover that we weren't kidding when we shipped stable_api_nonsense.txt,
> and since their code isn't in the tree, they have to do all the API cleanup
> themselves, because no flock of nit-picking kernel janitor monkeys swarmed
> over their code and magically fixed it up for them.

Actually it is questionable for product development in a commercial
environment (especially in the embedded world where you usually have a
quite defined hardware and software on your device) if one actually
wants that - think of the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" reason.

> And unless Y+15 has some *very* compelling reasons to move forward, just
> sticking at Y suddenly starts looking very good, because watching somebody
> else's kernel janitor monkeys fix your code is fairly cheap, but paying your
> own kernel janitor monkeys gets expensive really fast....

It depends on the *very* compelling reason if it is easier/cheaper to
a) fix the problem in the "old" kernel,
b) backport something or
c) forward port the own drivers/changes.
And that decision depends on lots of factors (and company-internal
bureaucracy with the QA department may not be the least important).

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services


  reply	other threads:[~2007-02-16  9:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 255+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <9b3a62ab0702142115m4ea7d2c0m6869eb64ef3ee14e@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15  5:16 ` GPL vs non-GPL device drivers v j
     [not found]   ` <75b66ecd0702142130x64824694ieee1869d0d70ab15@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15  5:38     ` v j
2007-02-15  5:47   ` Trent Waddington
     [not found]     ` <9b3a62ab0702142214p5c33a02am7e783c59ae0a64f1@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-15  6:16       ` v j
2007-02-15 12:45         ` Neil Horman
2007-02-15  6:35       ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  6:46         ` v j
2007-02-15  6:56           ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  7:32           ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15  9:44             ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-15 10:50               ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 14:24             ` Jan De Luyck
2007-02-15 14:37               ` Benny Amorsen
2007-02-15 14:47                 ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 17:49                 ` Jan Knutar
2007-02-15  7:55           ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 14:45           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 20:21           ` Chris Snook
2007-02-15 22:34             ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16  4:20             ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-15  6:11   ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15  6:27     ` v j
2007-02-15  6:43       ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15  6:55         ` v j
2007-02-15  7:02           ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  7:09             ` v j
2007-02-15  7:18               ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  7:30               ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15 11:52                 ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-15  7:11       ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-15  7:28         ` v j
2007-02-15  7:43           ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15  7:53             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15  8:11               ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15  8:35                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 20:56               ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 21:51                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16  0:38                   ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 12:53                     ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-17  2:42                       ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17  8:29                         ` Neil Brown
2007-02-18  2:55                           ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18  3:26                             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18  6:56                               ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18  7:20                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18  8:54                                 ` Oleg Verych
2007-02-18 23:42                                   ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18 13:57                               ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-18 21:16                                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18  1:26                         ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-18  1:28                           ` David Lang
2007-02-18  1:51                             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 17:48                           ` David Schwartz
2007-02-19 20:55                             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 21:53                               ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:26                                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 22:48                                   ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:58                                     ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-19 23:18                                       ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 23:26                                         ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  0:28                                           ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20  0:36                                             ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  0:50                                               ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20  0:55                                                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  0:58                                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-20  1:00                                                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  7:48                                                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  8:24                                                     ` v j
2007-02-20  9:01                                                     ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-20  1:29                                       ` David Schwartz
2007-02-20  5:19                                         ` v j
2007-02-20 10:54                                           ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-20 11:00                                           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-20 15:14                                             ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-20 15:39                                               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-20 14:36                                           ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-20 20:30                                             ` Jan-Benedict Glaw
2007-02-21 12:45                                               ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-21 22:08                                         ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:30                                           ` Nuno Silva
2007-02-22  0:26                                             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-21 23:34                                           ` David Lang
2007-02-22  0:28                                             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22  1:30                                               ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22  2:05                                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22  4:17                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22  4:24                                                     ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-22  6:12                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22  9:28                                                     ` Jon K Hellan
2007-02-22 16:45                                                     ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-22 20:30                                                       ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25  0:59                                                       ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-22 14:14                                                   ` Alan
2007-02-22 22:42                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-23  0:18                                                       ` Alan
2007-02-23  1:12                                                         ` Randy Dunlap
2007-02-23  1:21                                                         ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-22 14:10                                                 ` Alan
2007-02-22 21:36                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-22 22:28                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 10:42                                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-25 11:33                                             ` David Schwartz
2007-02-25 19:39                                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-26  0:47                                                 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-26  1:54                                                   ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 11:54                                             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 13:52                                               ` Alan
2007-02-25 14:21                                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 19:10                                                   ` Alan
2007-02-26 10:16                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-26 14:12                                                       ` Alan
2007-02-25 22:27                                                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-26 10:17                                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-25 20:15                                               ` D. Hazelton
2007-02-25 17:56                                             ` Stephen Clark
2007-02-19 22:47                               ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 13:09             ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-15  8:12           ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 10:01           ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 10:51             ` Mohammed Gamal
2007-02-15 11:00               ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 11:05                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 11:17                   ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 11:15                 ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15 11:35                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-15 13:14                     ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-15 14:43           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 16:22           ` Stuart MacDonald
2007-02-16  0:36             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-16  9:44               ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-16  9:58               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15  7:24       ` Dave Jones
2007-02-15  9:54       ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 14:14       ` Neil Horman
2007-02-15 14:43       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 16:25       ` Rik van Riel
2007-02-15 16:53       ` Theodore Tso
2007-02-15 18:20         ` v j
2007-02-15 18:41           ` Josh Boyer
2007-02-16 15:34             ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-15 18:58           ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-15 19:02           ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-16  1:12             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-16  1:14               ` David Lang
2007-02-16  5:48                 ` v j
2007-02-16  5:57                   ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16  6:25                     ` v j
2007-02-16  6:40                       ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-16  6:45                       ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16  9:16                         ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 10:00                           ` Joshua Simmons
2007-02-16 11:42                             ` David Schwartz
2007-02-16 11:51                               ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 13:29                               ` Joshua Simmons
2007-02-17  2:42                                 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17  6:44                                   ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17  7:26                                     ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 10:35                           ` Richard Knutsson
2007-02-16 17:12                           ` Dave Neuer
2007-02-16 21:26                             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-18 17:08                               ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-17  2:42                             ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 10:46                               ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-17 14:19                                 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 23:30                                   ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-17 23:55                                     ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-18  9:00                                       ` Giuseppe Bilotta
2007-02-19 17:53                                     ` David Schwartz
2007-02-18  5:15                                   ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 22:18                               ` Dave Neuer
2007-02-17 23:04                                 ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 23:04                                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16  9:52                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 13:44                         ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16 10:30                       ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16 10:38                       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-16 14:04                       ` Neil Horman
2007-02-16 14:14                       ` Jesper Juhl
2007-02-17  2:59                         ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17  6:32                           ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-17 13:27                             ` David Schwartz
2007-02-17 19:29                             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-17 21:15                               ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 20:31                                 ` Alan
2007-02-19 20:20                                   ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 20:48                                     ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-19 21:50                                       ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-19 22:12                                         ` Michael Dreher
2007-02-17 21:21                               ` David Schwartz
2007-02-18  4:38                                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 15:40                       ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-16  9:12                   ` Xavier Bestel
2007-02-16  9:44                     ` Jon K Hellan
2007-02-16 11:41                       ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-02-16  6:46               ` Miguel Ojeda
2007-02-15 19:27           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2007-02-16  1:24             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-15 22:21           ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16  0:04             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16  0:37               ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16  2:09                 ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-16  2:12                 ` Trent Waddington
2007-02-16  4:00                 ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16  5:16                   ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-16  5:57                     ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-15 22:42           ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-16  1:48             ` Scott Preece
2007-02-17  4:03             ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-17  4:19               ` Gene Heskett
     [not found]           ` <7b69d1470702151705h297c3b38g138eb0138b900aea@mail.gmail.com>
2007-02-16  2:00             ` v j
2007-02-16  6:07               ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-16  8:36               ` Martin Mares
2007-02-16 17:00               ` Matthew Frost
2007-02-16 17:52               ` Matthew Frost
2007-02-20 14:55               ` Helge Hafting
2007-02-16  0:10         ` Greg Trounson
2007-02-16  0:18           ` Lee Revell
2007-02-16  0:37             ` Greg Trounson
2007-02-16  1:58               ` Lee Revell
2007-02-16  0:58         ` Scott Preece
2007-02-18 16:42           ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-15  6:15   ` Neil Brown
2007-02-15  6:51     ` Gene Heskett
2007-02-15  6:23   ` Ben Nizette
2007-02-15  7:40     ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 20:56       ` David Schwartz
2007-02-15 21:53       ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15 22:41         ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-15 23:20           ` Bernd Petrovitsch
2007-02-15  7:36   ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-15  8:04     ` v j
2007-02-15  8:13       ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-15  8:17       ` Richard Knutsson
2007-02-15  8:40         ` v j
2007-02-15 19:36           ` Jörn Engel
2007-02-15  8:24       ` Nick Piggin
2007-02-15 11:52       ` Martin Mares
2007-02-16  4:13       ` Alexandre Oliva
2007-02-16 13:32       ` Lennart Sorensen
2007-02-15 11:54   ` Mws
2007-02-15 12:51     ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-15 14:32       ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-15 14:54         ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-16  8:19         ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2007-02-16  9:25           ` Bernd Petrovitsch [this message]
2007-02-16 15:33           ` Chris Friesen
2007-02-16 15:58           ` Scott Preece
2007-02-15 15:18   ` Michael K. Edwards
2007-02-15 11:06 Ihar `Philips` Filipau
     [not found] <7OHci-7fx-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found] ` <7OHci-7fx-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]   ` <7OJnQ-24B-19@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7OJQP-2VO-9@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-02-15 11:53       ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found]   ` <7OI8n-fp-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]     ` <7OIi9-tI-11@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]       ` <7OS7S-7tW-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
     [not found]         ` <7OTx3-1tH-17@gated-at.bofh.it>
2007-02-15 23:40           ` Bodo Eggert
     [not found] <fa.GPbYGi2HYDPl2WlRgsq2dPbD6cM@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.5t0XkAtEpB2nDYFPJKUBce9BKFE@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]   ` <fa.upvZMIS42lj8Tbudh1OdnbDn+Ts@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]     ` <fa.821rWTmf8FgAMnDeO7b6yeUeXYg@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]       ` <fa.+3hIy95KSdtolNz5kNmm6qk4FU8@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-15 23:31         ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-16 15:29           ` linux-os (Dick Johnson)
2007-02-16 23:08             ` Robert Hancock
2007-04-01 12:16 devzero

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