From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1755810AbZFQR4o (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:56:44 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1752698AbZFQR4g (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:56:36 -0400 Received: from e32.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.150]:38812 "EHLO e32.co.us.ibm.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750983AbZFQR4f (ORCPT ); Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:56:35 -0400 Subject: Re: [GIT pull] ntp updates for 2.6.31 From: John Stultz To: Ingo Molnar Cc: Miroslav Lichvar , Thomas Gleixner , Linus Torvalds , Andrew Morton , LKML In-Reply-To: <20090617172601.GA3493@elte.hu> References: <1f1b08da0906151316s7d25f8ceraa1bc967a8abe172@mail.gmail.com> <1f1b08da0906151641u4cd964e6vf1a61afe50cc1d90@mail.gmail.com> <20090616090647.GD13771@elte.hu> <20090616125248.GA23541@localhost> <1245253102.6067.94.camel@jstultz-laptop> <20090617172325.GA32332@localhost> <20090617172601.GA3493@elte.hu> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:55:42 -0700 Message-Id: <1245261342.6067.102.camel@jstultz-laptop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.26.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 19:26 +0200, Ingo Molnar wrote: > * Miroslav Lichvar wrote: > > > Still, I'd really like to see the original behavior restored. Most > > of the users complaining about slow convergence are probably just > > hitting the calibration problem, which needs to be fixed by other > > means than making PLL faster. Also, users of other systems seem to > > be happy with their slow convergence. At least that's the > > impression I have from NTP lists. > > Wouldnt the goal be to calibrate as fast as possible? (Without any > bad oscillation) I believe he means the TSC calibration error issue, where every boot the TSC calibration varies by 30-80ppm. This makes it hard for systems to stay in NTP sync after a reboot, because ntpd has to search for a new freq (and the SHIFT_PLL & time_constant values control how fast that happens). While the TSC calibration is an issue, there is also the fact that NTP's slow convergence model (which is "by design", for good or bad) doesn't seem to handle thermal environment changes quickly enough to keep close sync. Now, weather we fix the change by tweaking ntpd or the kernel, I still think is a question that we've not answered well. Even though I'm of the opinion something needs to change, I'm not yet convinced of which side is the right side to fix. And that is why I requested we hold off on merging the SHIFT_PLL patch. And really, if you look at Miroslav's patch, which is mathematically equivalent to the SHIFT_PLL change, all we're doing is decreasing what ntpd gave as the time_constant us by two. So the question is, why is that fix best done in the kernel, instead of making ntpd reduce what it passes in to the kernel? thanks -john