From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754155AbZFYNZN (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:25:13 -0400 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1752654AbZFYNZC (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:25:02 -0400 Received: from fifo99.com ([67.223.236.141]:45667 "EHLO fifo99.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751834AbZFYNZA (ORCPT ); Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:25:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [PATCH 1/6] staging: android: binder: Remove some funny && usage From: Daniel Walker To: Dianne Hackborn Cc: Arve =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hj=F8nnev=E5g?= , Brian Swetland , Jeremy Fitzhardinge , Greg Kroah-Hartman , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org In-Reply-To: <26b7c7380906242109id89b490m2c148ec0ac9b3696@mail.gmail.com> References: <1244832678-30329-1-git-send-email-dwalker@fifo99.com> <4A390B9A.40806@goop.org> <1245254936.5982.261.camel@desktop> <4A391A54.7000109@goop.org> <1245274308.5982.268.camel@desktop> <1245451983.32124.25.camel@desktop> <1245458940.32124.45.camel@desktop> <26b7c7380906242109id89b490m2c148ec0ac9b3696@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:24:59 -0700 Message-Id: <1245936299.32124.299.camel@desktop> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 21:09 -0700, Dianne Hackborn wrote: > 2009/6/19 Daniel Walker > > Most of these questions related to the fact that I don't think an > > interface like this just slips into the kernel as a driver. Since it's > > IPC, it's totally generic, and it's not part of a standard (i.e. POSIX), > > we need to have some better and more specific information about it (or > > atleast I do). > > Hi, sorry I have been slow to respond. I can give a summary of how > binder is used in the Android platform and the associated feature set. > I won't try to address other options, especially D-Bus, because > honestly I haven't been following it for the last 3 or so years so > don't really know its current state of art. Thank your for the extensive response. I'm sure it will be helpful in educating us as to the usage of the interface.. Was dbus initially investigated by the Android project as something that could be used for IPC? Which other mechanisms had been investigated for IPC beyond binder? > I'm not sure what the relevance is of Java or C++ people liking it. > Does this mean that the important thing is that C people love it and > other languages don't matter? :) Anyway whether or not you "love" it > I don't think is a matter of programming language but just design > style, personal preference, and who knows what else. It has been > extremely useful in our implementation of Android, as can be seen in > just how much of the system sits on top of it, but that's all. The important thing is that it's in the kernel for a better reason than simply satisfying a certain language group .. I think the biggest issue I have with the binder implementation is that it's doing far too much in the kernel, it's not just IPC. It's also thread management, memory management, and lots of other stuff that I haven't figured out yet .. A lot of it can already be done in userspace. Daniel