From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752677Ab3GXQuO (ORCPT ); Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:50:14 -0400 Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.122]:16675 "EHLO hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1754910Ab3GXQuL (ORCPT ); Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:50:11 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=P6i4d18u c=1 sm=0 a=Sro2XwOs0tJUSHxCKfOySw==:17 a=Drc5e87SC40A:10 a=QIZFyTDxVIcA:10 a=5SG0PmZfjMsA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=meVymXHHAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=WKn5AdJQQDgA:10 a=18wTAqcYOaM2zRuaw_EA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Sro2XwOs0tJUSHxCKfOySw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 67.255.60.225 Message-ID: <1374684607.3356.132.camel@gandalf.local.home> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML From: Steven Rostedt To: James Bottomley Cc: "ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Stefano Stabellini , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Darren Hart , Felipe Contreras , Linux Kernel Mailing List , stable , Ingo Molnar , Geert Uytterhoeven , Chris Ball , Linus Torvalds , Willy Tarreau Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:50:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1374682997.7382.8.camel@dabdike> References: <1373944014.17876.255.camel@gandalf.local.home> <51E4BFA9.1030600@zytor.com> <1373991399.6458.6.camel@gandalf.local.home> <51E59F79.1040903@zytor.com> <20130717144043.GA16513@xanatos> <20130719120841.GH26716@gmail.com> <1EC23D2B9975384993D85B5DB93AAE8861AA8D@sisaex01sj> <1374629194.2290.77.camel@dabdike> <1374629880.3356.130.camel@gandalf.local.home> <1374682997.7382.8.camel@dabdike> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.4.4-3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 09:23 -0700, James Bottomley wrote: > On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 21:38 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 18:26 -0700, James Bottomley wrote: > > > > > I think it's not in the original fallacies because they come from Greek > > > rhetoric and the Greeks believed dialectic: the taking opposite > > > positions and arguing them thoroughly. It's only with the advent of > > > Western European political systems that we're conditioned to seek > > > compromise without rigorous examination. This actually makes argument > > > to moderation one of the most effective rhetorical tools in use today > > > for discrediting an opponent's argument without actually addressing it. > > > > What? Really? You mean the truth doesn't lie in the middle between > > evolution and creationism? > > Well, you jest, but actually Intelligent Design is usually presented as > a false compromise between the "extremes" of evolution and creationism. > If you listen to it's proponents, the rhetorical device they use to > argue for legitimacy is precisely an argument to moderation. Exactly, which is why I used that as an example. And also, just to kick the hornet's nest. -- Steve From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Message-ID: <1374684607.3356.132.camel@gandalf.local.home> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML From: Steven Rostedt To: James Bottomley Cc: "ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , Stefano Stabellini , Greg Kroah-Hartman , Darren Hart , Felipe Contreras , Linux Kernel Mailing List , stable , Ingo Molnar , Geert Uytterhoeven , Chris Ball , Linus Torvalds , Willy Tarreau Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 12:50:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1374682997.7382.8.camel@dabdike> References: <1373944014.17876.255.camel@gandalf.local.home> <51E4BFA9.1030600@zytor.com> <1373991399.6458.6.camel@gandalf.local.home> <51E59F79.1040903@zytor.com> <20130717144043.GA16513@xanatos> <20130719120841.GH26716@gmail.com> <1EC23D2B9975384993D85B5DB93AAE8861AA8D@sisaex01sj> <1374629194.2290.77.camel@dabdike> <1374629880.3356.130.camel@gandalf.local.home> <1374682997.7382.8.camel@dabdike> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: On Wed, 2013-07-24 at 09:23 -0700, James Bottomley wrote: > On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 21:38 -0400, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > On Tue, 2013-07-23 at 18:26 -0700, James Bottomley wrote: > > > > > I think it's not in the original fallacies because they come from Greek > > > rhetoric and the Greeks believed dialectic: the taking opposite > > > positions and arguing them thoroughly. It's only with the advent of > > > Western European political systems that we're conditioned to seek > > > compromise without rigorous examination. This actually makes argument > > > to moderation one of the most effective rhetorical tools in use today > > > for discrediting an opponent's argument without actually addressing it. > > > > What? Really? You mean the truth doesn't lie in the middle between > > evolution and creationism? > > Well, you jest, but actually Intelligent Design is usually presented as > a false compromise between the "extremes" of evolution and creationism. > If you listen to it's proponents, the rhetorical device they use to > argue for legitimacy is precisely an argument to moderation. Exactly, which is why I used that as an example. And also, just to kick the hornet's nest. -- Steve