From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F8618A1 for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2014 02:07:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from shadbolt.e.decadent.org.uk (shadbolt.e.decadent.org.uk [88.96.1.126]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 26A5E1F93F for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2014 02:07:11 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <1407895613.3017.138.camel@deadeye.wl.decadent.org.uk> From: Ben Hutchings To: John Stultz Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 03:06:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-buHD25CnbrD/lOAnp9pq" Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: "Joseph S. Myers" , ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, lkml Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] 2038 Kernel Summit Discussion Fodder List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --=-buHD25CnbrD/lOAnp9pq Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2014-08-12 at 17:01 -0700, John Stultz wrote: [...] > The downsides here are many. The distros will probably hate this idea, I certainly hate the idea of adding another 32-bit port to Debian. I think that it's OK for traditional distros to say 'just upgrade to 64bit' while you solve the problem for 32-bit embedded systems where there's probably little demand for supporting multiple ABIs at once. > as it requires rebuilding the world, and maintaining another legacy > architecture support. I=E2=80=99m also not completely sure how robust > multi-arch packaging is in the face of having to handle 3-4 > architectures on one system. dpkg multiarch covers this just fine, while I believe RPM is limited to biarch. > On the kernel side, it also adds more complexity, where we have to add > even more complex compat support for 64bit systems to handle all the > various 32bit applications possible. [...] Didn't we need to do this already to support x32? Have compat ioctls involving time been botched? Ben. --=20 Ben Hutchings Humans are not rational beings; they are rationalising beings. --=-buHD25CnbrD/lOAnp9pq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIVAwUAU+rIQue/yOyVhhEJAQprlw//QGjxutIPavrjD0F/rXIM7PHpdnijdTHO RbBGTwYCFfyMvUWmXh1DNOjlCOkiNE5MvzzPTQvGKwH8t4vvmBqVOdOuB91AUrAs lOmrgg9Gmmy5zQf2JpBw2qPSyzjSXpNZfz4oENsudTqTvDNpGo82V7LCW2MwEBrV ut8dZUBdJhiiHhK9F3W8OlYoN1a6Q1Dq1YDM5x1VndD6Dt/4wV8dSl7Jjus7Rxif wIXyTIRrtFShlJmpBJP41tM8I9epIwQKUhm31pSLpNjOlAufXKZjgf3COu5DeMXO 4NUoUDAcH0vKhhxjndq3GWX6Q6eH0mGj8q5ojXQZWFsmTaNMMANTS82mXcCtWMLd kuXY4pF5tauv1htPymsE9pV3Uto46F+CkqQGV94xwwPtYhjAuGYd0pgaHOf8lN/c XmiljNH7v/XvsN2wAmiXP2tM7x2fuiqF3yMqLG8FRhV/dKleoUbipVGXljEwLyrt wD6Gh3cA6lUZ3AbUOynrFdstEI5neHXS8ovFsyUddoOh8tYe6mzhfmzjk8Rntand y9Dp+fegaT/LaAU8J8JAFnFHz2uKIRvByEZcuUdJVlkriUOpgdhmHmtpac/D3bW2 OU9Lypk1N1vnsXERN+Aa5NgyNEDNpD3EKsyCheb0G0pkbg7MEFotyi7EZeKjo9gj DPj3GJuE3T8= =wYoB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-buHD25CnbrD/lOAnp9pq-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1754053AbaHMCHN (ORCPT ); Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:07:13 -0400 Received: from shadbolt.e.decadent.org.uk ([88.96.1.126]:54866 "EHLO shadbolt.e.decadent.org.uk" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1753071AbaHMCHM (ORCPT ); Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:07:12 -0400 Message-ID: <1407895613.3017.138.camel@deadeye.wl.decadent.org.uk> Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] 2038 Kernel Summit Discussion Fodder From: Ben Hutchings To: John Stultz Cc: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, "Joseph S. Myers" , lkml Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 03:06:53 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha512"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-buHD25CnbrD/lOAnp9pq" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.12.2-1+b1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 192.168.4.249 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: ben@decadent.org.uk X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on shadbolt.decadent.org.uk); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --=-buHD25CnbrD/lOAnp9pq Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 2014-08-12 at 17:01 -0700, John Stultz wrote: [...] > The downsides here are many. The distros will probably hate this idea, I certainly hate the idea of adding another 32-bit port to Debian. I think that it's OK for traditional distros to say 'just upgrade to 64bit' while you solve the problem for 32-bit embedded systems where there's probably little demand for supporting multiple ABIs at once. > as it requires rebuilding the world, and maintaining another legacy > architecture support. I=E2=80=99m also not completely sure how robust > multi-arch packaging is in the face of having to handle 3-4 > architectures on one system. dpkg multiarch covers this just fine, while I believe RPM is limited to biarch. > On the kernel side, it also adds more complexity, where we have to add > even more complex compat support for 64bit systems to handle all the > various 32bit applications possible. [...] Didn't we need to do this already to support x32? Have compat ioctls involving time been botched? Ben. --=20 Ben Hutchings Humans are not rational beings; they are rationalising beings. --=-buHD25CnbrD/lOAnp9pq Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIVAwUAU+rIQue/yOyVhhEJAQprlw//QGjxutIPavrjD0F/rXIM7PHpdnijdTHO RbBGTwYCFfyMvUWmXh1DNOjlCOkiNE5MvzzPTQvGKwH8t4vvmBqVOdOuB91AUrAs lOmrgg9Gmmy5zQf2JpBw2qPSyzjSXpNZfz4oENsudTqTvDNpGo82V7LCW2MwEBrV ut8dZUBdJhiiHhK9F3W8OlYoN1a6Q1Dq1YDM5x1VndD6Dt/4wV8dSl7Jjus7Rxif wIXyTIRrtFShlJmpBJP41tM8I9epIwQKUhm31pSLpNjOlAufXKZjgf3COu5DeMXO 4NUoUDAcH0vKhhxjndq3GWX6Q6eH0mGj8q5ojXQZWFsmTaNMMANTS82mXcCtWMLd kuXY4pF5tauv1htPymsE9pV3Uto46F+CkqQGV94xwwPtYhjAuGYd0pgaHOf8lN/c XmiljNH7v/XvsN2wAmiXP2tM7x2fuiqF3yMqLG8FRhV/dKleoUbipVGXljEwLyrt wD6Gh3cA6lUZ3AbUOynrFdstEI5neHXS8ovFsyUddoOh8tYe6mzhfmzjk8Rntand y9Dp+fegaT/LaAU8J8JAFnFHz2uKIRvByEZcuUdJVlkriUOpgdhmHmtpac/D3bW2 OU9Lypk1N1vnsXERN+Aa5NgyNEDNpD3EKsyCheb0G0pkbg7MEFotyi7EZeKjo9gj DPj3GJuE3T8= =wYoB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-buHD25CnbrD/lOAnp9pq--