From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Message-ID: <1483464921.2440.19.camel@dubeyko.com> Subject: Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC][LSF/MM ATTEND] OCSSDs - SMR, Hierarchical Interface, and Vector I/Os From: Viacheslav Dubeyko To: Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rling?= , lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 09:35:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <05204e9d-ed4d-f97a-88f0-41b5e008af43@bjorling.me> <1483398761.2440.4.camel@dubeyko.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Linux FS Devel , "linux-block@vger.kernel.org" , Vyacheslav.Dubeyko@wdc.com, linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Sender: "Linux-nvme" Errors-To: linux-nvme-bounces+axboe=kernel.dk@lists.infradead.org List-ID: SGkgTWF0aWFzLAoKT24gVHVlLCAyMDE3LTAxLTAzIGF0IDA5OjU2ICswMTAwLCBNYXRpYXMgQmrD uHJsaW5nIHdyb3RlOgo+IE9uIDAxLzAzLzIwMTcgMTI6MTIgQU0sIFZpYWNoZXNsYXYgRHViZXlr byB3cm90ZToKPiA+IAo+ID4gT24gTW9uLCAyMDE3LTAxLTAyIGF0IDIyOjA2ICswMTAwLCBNYXRp YXMgQmrDuHJsaW5nIHdyb3RlOgo+ID4gPiAKPiA+ID4gSGksCj4gPiA+IAo+ID4gPiBUaGUgb3Bl bi1jaGFubmVsIFNTRCBzdWJzeXN0ZW0gaXMgbWF0dXJpbmcsIGFuZCBkcml2ZXMgYXJlCj4gPiA+ IGJlZ2lubmluZwo+ID4gPiB0b8KgCj4gPiA+IGJlY29tZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgb24gdGhlIG1hcmtl dC7CoAo+ID4gV2hhdCBkbyB5b3UgbWVhbj8gV2Ugc3RpbGwgaGF2ZSBub3RoaW5nIG9uIHRoZSBt YXJrZXQuIEkgaGF2ZW4ndAo+ID4gb3Bwb3J0dW5pdHkgdG8gYWNjZXNzIHRvIGFueSBvZiBzdWNo IGRldmljZS4gQ291bGQgeW91IHNoYXJlIHlvdXIKPiA+IGtub3dsZWRnZSB3aGVyZSBhbmQgd2hh dCBkZXZpY2UgY2FuIGJlIGJvdWdodCBvbiB0aGUgbWFya2V0Pwo+ID4gCj4gSGkgVnlhY2hlc2xh diwKPiAKPiBZb3UgYXJlIHJpZ2h0IHRoYXQgdGhleSBhcmUgbm90IGF2YWlsYWJsZSBvZmYgdGhl IHNoZWxmIGF0IGEKPiBjb252ZW5pZW50Cj4gc3RvcmUuIFlvdSBtYXkgY29udGFjdCBvbmUgb2Yg dGhlc2UgdmVuZG9ycyBmb3IgYXZhaWxhYmlsaXR5OiBDTkVYCj4gTGFicwo+IChXZXN0bGFrZSBM aWdodE5WTSBTREspLCBSYWRpYW4gTWVtb3J5IFN5c3RlbXMgKFJNUy0zMjUpLCBhbmQvb3IgRU1D Cj4gKE9YCj4gQ29udHJvbGxlciArIERyYWdvbiBGaXJlIGNhcmQpLgoKV2UsIFdlc3Rlcm4gRGln aXRhbCwgY29udGFjdGVkIHdpdGggQ05FWCBMYWJzIGFib3V0IGEgaGFsZiB5ZWFyIGFnby4KT3Vy IHJlcXVlc3Qgd2FzIHJlZnVzZWQuIEFsc28gd2UgY29udGFjdGVkIHdpdGjCoFJhZGlhbiBNZW1v cnkgU3lzdGVtcwphYm91dCBhIHllYXIgYWdvLiBPdXIgbmVnb3RpYXRpb25zIGZpbmlzaGVkIHdp dGggbm8gc3VjZXNzIGF0IGFsbC4gQW5kCkkgZG91YnQgdGhhdCBFTUMgd2lsbCBzaGFyZSB3aXRo IHVzIHNvbWV0aGluZy4gU28sIHN1Y2ggc2l0dWF0aW9uIGxvb2tzCnJlYWxseSB3ZWlyZCwgZXNw ZWNpYWxseSBmb3IgdGhlIGNhc2Ugb2Ygb3Blbi1zb3VyY2UgY29tbXVuaXR5LiBXZQpjYW5ub3Qg YWNjZXNzIG9yIHRlc3QgYW55IE9wZW4tY2hhbm5lbCBTU0Qgbm9yIGZvciBtb25leSBub3IgdW5k ZXIgTkRBLgpVc3VhbGx5LCBvcGVuLXNvdXJjZSBtZWFucyB0aGF0IGV2ZXJ5Ym9keSBoYXMgYWNj ZXNzIHRvIGhhcmR3YXJlIGFuZCB3ZQpjYW4gZGlzY3VzcyBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiwgYXJjaGl0 ZWN0dXJlIG9yIGFwcHJvYWNoIHdpdGhvdXQgYW55CnJlc3RyaWN0aW9ucy4gQnV0IHdlIGhhdmVu J3QgYWNjZXNzIHRvIGhhcmR3YXJlIHJpZ2h0IG5vdy4gSSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kCnRoZSBidXNpbmVz cyBtb2RlbCBhbmQgYmxhaCwgYmxhaCwgYmxhaC4gQnV0IGl0IGxvb2tzIGxpa2UgdGhhdCwKZmlu YWxseSwgd2UgaGF2ZSBub3RoaW5nIGxpa2UgT3Blbi1jaGFubmVsIFNTRCBvbiB0aGUgbWFya2V0 LCBmcm9tIG15CnBlcnNvbmFsIHBvaW50IG9mIHZpZXcuIEFuZCBJIHN1cHBvc2UgdGhhdCBpdCdz IHJlYWxseSB0cmlja3kgd2F5IHRvCmRpc2N1c3Mgc29mdHdhcmUgaW50ZXJmYWNlIG9yIGFueSBv dGhlciBkZXRhaWxzIGFib3V0IHNvbWV0aGluZyB0aGF0CmRvZXNuJ3QgZXhpc3QgYXQgYWxsLiBC ZWNhdXNlIGlmIEkgY2Fubm90IHRha2UgYW5kIHRlc3Qgc29tZSBoYXJkd2FyZQp0aGVuIEkgY2Fu bm90IGJ1aWxkIG15IG93biBvcGluaW9uIGFib3V0IHRoaXMgdGVjaG5vbG9neS4KClRoYW5rcywK VnlhY2hlc2xhdiBEdWJleWtvLgoKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fCkxpbnV4LW52bWUgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0CkxpbnV4LW52bWVAbGlzdHMuaW5m cmFkZWFkLm9yZwpodHRwOi8vbGlzdHMuaW5mcmFkZWFkLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xp bnV4LW52bWUK From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg0-f46.google.com ([74.125.83.46]:35027 "EHLO mail-pg0-f46.google.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1760060AbdACRfy (ORCPT ); Tue, 3 Jan 2017 12:35:54 -0500 Received: by mail-pg0-f46.google.com with SMTP id i5so152093715pgh.2 for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2017 09:35:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <1483464921.2440.19.camel@dubeyko.com> Subject: Re: [LSF/MM TOPIC][LSF/MM ATTEND] OCSSDs - SMR, Hierarchical Interface, and Vector I/Os From: Viacheslav Dubeyko To: Matias =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rling?= , lsf-pc@lists.linux-foundation.org Cc: Linux FS Devel , "linux-block@vger.kernel.org" , linux-nvme@lists.infradead.org, Vyacheslav.Dubeyko@wdc.com Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 09:35:21 -0800 In-Reply-To: References: <05204e9d-ed4d-f97a-88f0-41b5e008af43@bjorling.me> <1483398761.2440.4.camel@dubeyko.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: linux-fsdevel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: Hi Matias, On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 09:56 +0100, Matias Bjørling wrote: > On 01/03/2017 12:12 AM, Viacheslav Dubeyko wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2017-01-02 at 22:06 +0100, Matias Bjørling wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > The open-channel SSD subsystem is maturing, and drives are > > > beginning > > > to  > > > become available on the market.  > > What do you mean? We still have nothing on the market. I haven't > > opportunity to access to any of such device. Could you share your > > knowledge where and what device can be bought on the market? > > > Hi Vyacheslav, > > You are right that they are not available off the shelf at a > convenient > store. You may contact one of these vendors for availability: CNEX > Labs > (Westlake LightNVM SDK), Radian Memory Systems (RMS-325), and/or EMC > (OX > Controller + Dragon Fire card). We, Western Digital, contacted with CNEX Labs about a half year ago. Our request was refused. Also we contacted with Radian Memory Systems about a year ago. Our negotiations finished with no sucess at all. And I doubt that EMC will share with us something. So, such situation looks really weird, especially for the case of open-source community. We cannot access or test any Open-channel SSD nor for money nor under NDA. Usually, open-source means that everybody has access to hardware and we can discuss implementation, architecture or approach without any restrictions. But we haven't access to hardware right now. I understand the business model and blah, blah, blah. But it looks like that, finally, we have nothing like Open-channel SSD on the market, from my personal point of view. And I suppose that it's really tricky way to discuss software interface or any other details about something that doesn't exist at all. Because if I cannot take and test some hardware then I cannot build my own opinion about this technology. Thanks, Vyacheslav Dubeyko. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: slava@dubeyko.com (Viacheslav Dubeyko) Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2017 09:35:21 -0800 Subject: [LSF/MM TOPIC][LSF/MM ATTEND] OCSSDs - SMR, Hierarchical Interface, and Vector I/Os In-Reply-To: References: <05204e9d-ed4d-f97a-88f0-41b5e008af43@bjorling.me> <1483398761.2440.4.camel@dubeyko.com> Message-ID: <1483464921.2440.19.camel@dubeyko.com> Hi Matias, On Tue, 2017-01-03@09:56 +0100, Matias Bj?rling wrote: > On 01/03/2017 12:12 AM, Viacheslav Dubeyko wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2017-01-02@22:06 +0100, Matias Bj?rling wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > The open-channel SSD subsystem is maturing, and drives are > > > beginning > > > to? > > > become available on the market.? > > What do you mean? We still have nothing on the market. I haven't > > opportunity to access to any of such device. Could you share your > > knowledge where and what device can be bought on the market? > > > Hi Vyacheslav, > > You are right that they are not available off the shelf at a > convenient > store. You may contact one of these vendors for availability: CNEX > Labs > (Westlake LightNVM SDK), Radian Memory Systems (RMS-325), and/or EMC > (OX > Controller + Dragon Fire card). We, Western Digital, contacted with CNEX Labs about a half year ago. Our request was refused. Also we contacted with?Radian Memory Systems about a year ago. Our negotiations finished with no sucess at all. And I doubt that EMC will share with us something. So, such situation looks really weird, especially for the case of open-source community. We cannot access or test any Open-channel SSD nor for money nor under NDA. Usually, open-source means that everybody has access to hardware and we can discuss implementation, architecture or approach without any restrictions. But we haven't access to hardware right now. I understand the business model and blah, blah, blah. But it looks like that, finally, we have nothing like Open-channel SSD on the market, from my personal point of view. And I suppose that it's really tricky way to discuss software interface or any other details about something that doesn't exist at all. Because if I cannot take and test some hardware then I cannot build my own opinion about this technology. Thanks, Vyacheslav Dubeyko.