From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (smtp1.linux-foundation.org [172.17.192.35]) by mail.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4423504 for ; Tue, 8 May 2018 22:41:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bedivere.hansenpartnership.com (bedivere.hansenpartnership.com [66.63.167.143]) by smtp1.linuxfoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E8B9F4 for ; Tue, 8 May 2018 22:41:40 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <1525819297.13798.3.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: James Bottomley To: Sasha Levin , David Lang Date: Tue, 08 May 2018 15:41:37 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20180508214339.GE8514@sasha-vm> References: <20180503031000.GC29205@thunk.org> <0276fcda-0385-8f22-dbdb-e063f7ed8bbe@roeck-us.net> <20180503224217.GR2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503230905.GA98604@atomide.com> <20180508023439.GA8514@sasha-vm> <20180508034820.GE999@thunk.org> <20180508202912.GC8514@sasha-vm> <20180508205505.GD8514@sasha-vm> <20180508214339.GE8514@sasha-vm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , Linux Kernel Mailing List , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "w@1wt.eu" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , On Tue, 2018-05-08 at 21:43 +0000, Sasha Levin via Ksummit-discuss wrote: > On Tue, May 08, 2018 at 01:59:18PM -0700, David Lang wrote: > > On Tue, 8 May 2018, Sasha Levin wrote: > > > > > There's no one, for example, who picked up vanilla v4.16 and > > > plans to keep using it for a year. > > > > Actually, at a prior job I would do almost exactly that. > > > > I never intended to go a year without updating, but it would happen > > if  nothing came up that was related to the hardware/features I > > was running. > > > > so 'no one uses the Linus kernel is false. > > My point is not that "no one ever uses Linus kernel" but that no one > takes one of those kernels and plans to stick with it for 3 months > until the next one comes up, even if there are updates relevant to > that user.. Actually, I have sometimes done that. My current laptop is running the v4.16 tag now, not because I intended to run it for this long but because I've run into a Round Tuit shortage as far as the -rc candidates go. > Yes, some users will use a .0 release until either Greg releases a > -stable, or until the next -rc is out. > > What I'm trying to say is that there is that the .0 release makes > some people rush poorly tested commits in it even though the .0 > release is not significant in any way. As a milestone, it's extremely significant because it's the cadence from which everything else flows. If we as developers stop taking the -rc cycle seriously, you'll find immediate negative consequences for your stable kernels. And I mean way worse consequences than the odd bad judgment call about a patch that ought not to have gone in right before a Linus release. James From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Cyrus-Session-Id: sloti22d1t05-3537408-1525819309-2-7993040103371646014 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 3.0 X-Spam-known-sender: no ("Email failed DMARC policy for domain") X-Spam-score: 0.0 X-Spam-hits: BAYES_00 -1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS 0.25, MAILING_LIST_MULTI -1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED -2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS -0.001, SPF_PASS -0.001, LANGUAGES en, BAYES_USED global, SA_VERSION 3.4.0 X-Spam-source: IP='140.211.169.12', Host='mail.linuxfoundation.org', Country='US', FromHeader='com', MailFrom='org' X-Spam-charsets: plain='utf-8' X-IgnoreVacation: yes ("Email failed DMARC policy for domain") X-Resolved-to: greg@kroah.com X-Delivered-to: greg@kroah.com X-Mail-from: ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=messagingengine.com; s=fm2; t= 1525819308; b=mS83TVOO1SighKOJVzJYDeAN4YK8VRW81XfqmAQa5BmHhmJxdo yPgk9p6z9fUKF6n2glWk+/pRCKhwWE3N9a3792DdP10Ma34J+hI0/ddllnsfQ37K ynZHaGtSocN8KfYrBhY0FF+cRpkEA/yegwgTL9g9R/DRLgoOs5vicLTT4TPCahhv zcnktSieaPe9Be0IAH55i39lA75HabmcnaqlEuh46YzqgQzjdLeAg7twvl0jEfjZ Th/IX9cIW0gGeIfKE9KNqHz5gkIYtPDrWTrI5N+a3Z8so87WF5eQxv+QZHpboI+o hk2R+qzRUfrX9HSgS+RF/Madii160wA617Jw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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iprev=pass policy.iprev=140.211.169.12 (mail.linuxfoundation.org); spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ksummit-discuss-bounces@lists.linuxfoundation.org smtp.helo=mail.linuxfoundation.org; x-aligned-from=fail; x-cm=discussion score=0; x-ptr=pass x-ptr-helo=mail.linuxfoundation.org x-ptr-lookup=mail.linuxfoundation.org; x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=lists.linuxfoundation.org smtp.result=pass smtp_org.domain=linuxfoundation.org smtp_org.result=pass smtp_is_org_domain=no header.domain=hansenpartnership.com header.result=pass header_is_org_domain=yes; x-tls=pass version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128; x-vs=clean score=-100 state=0 X-ME-VSCategory: clean X-CM-Envelope: MS4wfCujSzCVxnpXNm6H8f/3nCqKZhAHh7JNKWTrZs2u85A6P0pCGgwR5xAmaSD2zFjHC24L9szJsDHE+ExMF2wZtYJiJ+zleTy1/64qP3J5uP0vmgw7rduX kYUJwcyusU4PICBxAqnynoLfOBmdGdn4uNL21k6JpAv1TGDgCP7uCoM+/C1silLZBOp+UGA0AhLpdGhQPSSSbUTuVOJMLhY5ODTAp8uymIT/t5gIvbITfrSq q/yuUVpL3XfKQp97mMxfBg== X-CM-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=WaUilXpX c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=5MPDoNpceV4HFXFrvkM3CQ==:117 a=5MPDoNpceV4HFXFrvkM3CQ==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=VUJBJC2UJ8kA:10 a=-uNXE31MpBQA:10 a=jJxKW8Ag-pUA:10 a=ag1SF4gXAAAA:8 a=Si8D3kuRNIGzquobSMMA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Yupwre4RP9_Eg_Bd0iYG:22 cc=dsc X-ME-CMScore: 0 X-ME-CMCategory: discussion X-Remote-Delivered-To: ksummit-discuss@mail.linuxfoundation.org Message-ID: <1525819297.13798.3.camel@HansenPartnership.com> From: James Bottomley To: Sasha Levin , David Lang Date: Tue, 08 May 2018 15:41:37 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20180508214339.GE8514@sasha-vm> References: <20180503031000.GC29205@thunk.org> <0276fcda-0385-8f22-dbdb-e063f7ed8bbe@roeck-us.net> <20180503224217.GR2714@sirena.org.uk> <20180503230905.GA98604@atomide.com> <20180508023439.GA8514@sasha-vm> <20180508034820.GE999@thunk.org> <20180508202912.GC8514@sasha-vm> <20180508205505.GD8514@sasha-vm> <20180508214339.GE8514@sasha-vm> X-Mailer: Evolution 3.22.6 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Remote-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Remote-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on smtp1.linux-foundation.org Cc: Greg Kroah-Hartman , Linux Kernel Mailing List , "ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org" , "w@1wt.eu" Subject: Re: [Ksummit-discuss] bug-introducing patches X-BeenThere: ksummit-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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