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From: Kent Borg <kentborg@borg.org>
To: Val Henson <val@nmt.edu>
Cc: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>,
	dpaun@rogers.com, rms@gnu.org, lm@bitmover.com,
	acahalan@cs.uml.edu, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: "Mother" == "computer-illiterate"
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 09:35:09 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030109093509.D17044@borg.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030109072043.GE26010@boardwalk>; from val@nmt.edu on Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:20:43AM -0700

On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:20:43AM -0700, Val Henson wrote:
> How come no one ever talks about a Linux distribution so easy that
> your grandfather could install it?  Or a kernel configuration tool so
> simple that even Uncle Timmy can use it?

I am new to this thread, but I do use the "my mom" example because my
mother *is* the computer pioneer I know in that generation, but one
who still finds them difficult.  She has been using computers since
she got a new Macintosh Plus and a 30 MB hard disk, and she has been
using e-mail since before it was clear to everybody that @-signs would
be a universal part of e-mail addresses.  However, she is also still
not a computer wiz and I think never will be--there seems to be a
generational thing here, like learning a foreign language in
adulthood, that keeps computers hard.  When my mother was a little
girl electricity was still new, and was useful for lighting.

My most recent e-mail from her was saying the some Apple support
person concluded her current problem is likely the Imac's hard drive
and to bring it into the store where she got it.  (Her other Imac
works better, but it is only OS X and doesn't work with her scanner.)
She keeps at it!

My father only recently got interested in computers, uses the new Imac
for video editing, but refers all support questions to my mother.  He
doesn't pretend to be self-sufficient on the topic.

> Can we quit with the "clueless mother" examples already?  

My mother is far from clueless, but she is stubbornly resistant to
becoming a power user who can reliably solve her own problems.  (The
fact that computers are still so damn buggy doesn't help either.)

I am encouraging them to get a DSL connection with a static IP, at
which point I will add a Linux computer to their collection--and I
will administer it remotely from 1000 miles away.

> My own mother has installed more distributions of Linux than I've
> even logged into.

I don't doubt that, but until computers get a lot easier to use and
administer the graphic image of the Clueless Mother is useful to shock
most geeks back to the reality that there *are* naive users.  Many of
us have mothers, and computer expert mothers are still rare.

> I know quite a few mothers who have PhDs in CS, own several
> CS-related patents, and/or made important fundamental discoveries in
> CS.

(You hang out in rarified circles, the number of women in CSci id
dropping.)

So don't imagine a general purpose "have given birth human"!  Imagine
a woman born in a modern western country, but 20 years before the
invention of the transistor.  These capable women mastered impressive
things, but computers are so obtuse!  And they are not the only ones
having trouble.  I am still having trouble getting my software Raid 1
to boot off of either drive if one goes south--without opening the box
and pulling cables.  And it seems like such a reasonable desire...


-kb, the Kent who insists that computers are more difficult than they
need be.


P.S.  Some of us are old enough to remember when mice and graphical
interfaces were considered toys for beginners and not suitable to real
users.  But at least then there was controversy!  Now, overlapping
windows are the undoubted standard and no one even complains.  These
traditions are too complicated, limited, and narrow, but it is hard to
think beyond them.  But imagining a naive user (maybe even knowing one
or two) is a useful way to ask basic questions.  If this naive user
isn't Your Mother, OK, but please don't forget that what is good for a
naive user (e.g., the mouse) is good for others too.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2003-01-09 14:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 131+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-01-05  8:02 Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Albert D. Cahalan
2003-01-06 17:13 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-06 17:37   ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-06 19:40     ` Steven Barnhart
2003-01-06 23:33     ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-07 15:47       ` Disconnect
2003-01-07 13:40     ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-07 14:26       ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-08  8:00         ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-08 13:51           ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-09 23:14             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:24               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-11  0:21                 ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-10  5:33               ` Oliver Xymoron
2003-01-10  6:07                 ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-10  6:31                   ` Miles Bader
2003-01-10 14:17                 ` Charles Cazabon
2003-01-11  1:36                 ` Rob Wilkens
2003-01-11  4:06                   ` John Jasen
2003-01-11  7:13                     ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-08 21:29           ` Matthias Andree
2003-01-09  2:26           ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-09  8:57             ` John Alvord
2003-01-09 15:18               ` What's in a name? Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-09 16:11                 ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-09 16:51                   ` venom
2003-01-09 17:48                   ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-10  9:52               ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Richard Stallman
2003-01-10 16:05                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-10 18:38                 ` Names as origin component paths Mark Mielke
2003-01-10 18:41                 ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Rogier Wolff
2003-01-12 11:55                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-12 12:27                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-13 14:32                     ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-13 17:09                       ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-13 17:22                         ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-13 17:37                           ` Jesse Pollard
2003-01-13 18:48                             ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-14 18:55                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 19:06                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-14 19:56                                   ` [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him Dax Kelson
2003-01-14 20:02                                     ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-14 20:19                                       ` Olivier Galibert
2003-01-14 20:36                                         ` Richard B. Johnson
2003-01-14 20:45                                           ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-15 23:28                                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-14 21:08                                         ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 21:51                                           ` Chris Funderburg
2003-01-14 22:13                                           ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-14 22:27                                           ` Wakko Warner
2003-01-15 16:39                                           ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-16 23:12                                             ` Adrian Bunk
2003-01-15 23:28                                           ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-16  2:51                                             ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-18  0:47                                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-18  0:56                                                 ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-19  1:36                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-19  5:55                                                     ` Matthew D. Pitts
2003-01-18  3:01                                                 ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-18 14:23                                                   ` andrea.glorioso
2003-01-20  0:50                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-20  1:46                                                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-01-21 18:17                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-21 18:30                                                         ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-21 18:55                                                         ` Nicolas Pitre
2003-07-20  2:42                                                       ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 19:30                                                         ` Brian McGroarty
2003-07-20 22:00                                                           ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-01-16  5:23                                             ` Steve Lee
2003-01-18  0:47                                               ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-20 13:38                                                 ` Horst von Brand
2003-01-22  9:59                                                   ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-22 10:19                                                     ` Paulo Andre'
2003-01-22 11:05                                                       ` Jamie Lokier
2003-01-22 12:56                                                     ` Dave Jones
2003-01-22 16:21                                                     ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-23 11:37                                                       ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-23 13:17                                                         ` Murray J. Root
2003-01-23 18:15                                                         ` Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-24  0:41                                                           ` [PATCH] [2.4.20] dead code: remove /proc/sys/vm/kswapd Lamont Granquist
2003-07-20  2:27                                                       ` [OFFTOPIC] RMS and reactions to him Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20  8:09                                                         ` Florian Weimer
2003-07-20  8:49                                                           ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 10:55                                                             ` Wichert Akkerman
2003-07-20 21:52                                                               ` Leandro Guimarães Faria Corsetti Dutra
2003-07-20 22:09                                                                 ` Wichert Akkerman
2003-07-20 22:38                                                                   ` David Lloyd
2003-01-22 16:44                                                     ` John Alvord
2003-01-23  1:31                                                       ` Nick Matteo
2003-01-20 16:52                                                 ` Jerry Cooperstein
2003-01-22 17:14                                                 ` Jan Harkes
2003-01-14 20:27                                       ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:51                                         ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15  8:42                                           ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:42                                       ` Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15 12:47                                       ` Gaël Le Mignot
2003-01-14 20:15                                     ` Abramo Bagnara
2003-01-14 21:32                                   ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Andre Hedrick
2003-01-15 12:44                                   ` Gaël Le Mignot
2003-01-14 22:20                                 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2003-01-13 17:51                           ` Mark Mielke
2003-01-14 18:54                             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:14             ` Richard Stallman
2003-01-09 23:39               ` Larry McVoy
2003-01-10  0:01               ` Linux/Hurd vs GNU/Linux (was Re: Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently") Vlad@Vlad.geekizoid.com
2003-01-07 16:18       ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-08  2:29         ` Miles Bader
2003-01-09  7:20           ` "Mother" == "computer-illiterate" Val Henson
2003-01-09  8:05             ` J Sloan
2003-01-09 13:14             ` Miles Bader
2003-01-09 14:35             ` Kent Borg [this message]
2003-01-09 19:40             ` Val Henson
2003-01-09 20:21               ` jlnance
2003-01-09 20:30                 ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-10  1:34                   ` Andrew McGregor
2003-01-09 20:46                 ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-09 21:12                   ` Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-01-09 21:11                     ` Randy.Dunlap
2003-01-12 11:56                   ` Kristian Koehntopp
2003-01-09 23:11               ` Alan Cox
2003-01-09 22:41                 ` John Adams
2003-01-10  1:24                 ` Chris Adams
2003-01-10  2:15                   ` jdow
2003-01-10  3:20                     ` Val Henson
2003-01-10  4:23                     ` Tom Diehl
2003-01-10 10:35                 ` Henning P. Schmiedehausen
2003-01-10  7:04             ` Tim Timmerman
2003-01-09  7:28         ` Nvidia and its choice to read the GPL "differently" Richard Stallman
2003-01-09  6:44           ` Dimitrie O. Paun
2003-01-09 20:47 "Mother" == "computer-illiterate" Kaz Kylheku
2003-01-09 20:55 ` Murray J. Root

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