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From: Adrian Bunk <bunk@fs.tum.de>
To: Larry McVoy <lm@work.bitmover.com>, Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com>,
	David Schwartz <davids@webmaster.com>,
	Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Bitkeeper
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 00:28:38 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20030719222838.GB6942@fs.tum.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20030719215740.GD24197@work.bitmover.com>

On Sat, Jul 19, 2003 at 02:57:40PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2003 at 10:42:19PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 03:27:02PM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 02:08:32PM -0700, David Schwartz wrote:
> > > > 	My understanding of the relevant case law in the United States is that
> > > > these types of restrictions are not allowed under copyright law itself.
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 10:23:30PM +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > > > Actually your license is simply irrelevant in most of thre world. You
> > > > aren't allowed to forbid reverse engineering for interoperability.
> > > 
> > >     "Judge, I want to violate this license on this product that I got
> > >     for free because it's not free enough".
> > > 
> > >     "Judge, we give it out for free and we also developed technology
> > >     to transfer the data out of our product and into a GPLed product,
> > >     we do that at our expense and even host the competing GPLed repos
> > >     for free and they still want to violate the license"
> > > 
> > > Who do you think is going to win that one?
> > >...
> > 
> > "Judge, our current German copyright law explicitely states that such a
> >  clause is void."
> 
> No, it isn't.  Your case law is based on a *purchase* or *lease* of a

There is no case law in Germany. Case law is somethig that is only used 
in England and the USA.

In Germany there are laws for _everything_. Rules like who owns the
swarm of bees when several swarms of bees unite aren't made at court,
they are explicitely written in laws.

German judges don't read 200 years old judicial decisions, they read 
written laws.

Please ask a lawyer about the differences between the English/US and the 
continental Europe law system if you don't believe me.

> product for *money*.  If you paid us money, you'd have a point.  But
> you didn't.  You get to use the product for free and until there is 
> some case law which says otherwise, we get to make any rules we like.
> And our rules say you can't reverse engineer.  Too bad for you if you
> don't like it, I'm not exactly overflowing with sympathy for someone 
> who paid nothing and is now complaining that they aren't allowed to 
> reverse engineer and steal what they didn't pay for.

The current German copyright law doesn't talk about money. If you allow 
someone to use a copy the law explicitely states that some kind of 
contract clauses (e.g. a complete prohibition of disassembling) are 
simply void.

> Larry McVoy              lm at bitmover.com          http://www.bitmover.com/lm

cu
Adrian

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed


  reply	other threads:[~2003-07-19 22:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2003-07-18 19:51 Bitkeeper Richard Stallman
2003-07-18 20:06 ` Bitkeeper Rik van Riel
2003-07-18 20:22   ` Bitkeeper nick
2003-07-18 20:40     ` Bitkeeper Shawn
2003-07-18 21:28     ` Bitkeeper Alan Cox
2003-07-19 23:45       ` Bitkeeper Pavel Machek
2003-07-20  0:23         ` Bitkeeper Jeff Garzik
2003-07-18 20:32   ` Bitkeeper Shawn
2003-07-18 20:44     ` Bitkeeper Rik van Riel
2003-07-19 18:42     ` Bitkeeper Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-07-19 18:49       ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-19 18:57         ` Bitkeeper Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-07-19 19:05           ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-19 20:02             ` Bitkeeper Jan-Benedict Glaw
2003-07-18 20:09 ` Bitkeeper Trever L. Adams
2003-07-18 20:44   ` Bitkeeper Shawn
2003-07-18 21:03   ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-18 21:58     ` Bitkeeper Trever L. Adams
2003-07-18 22:17   ` Bitkeeper Mike Fedyk
2003-07-18 22:39     ` Bitkeeper Alan Cox
2003-07-19  8:20       ` Bitkeeper Eric W. Biederman
2003-07-19 15:34         ` Bitkeeper Mark Mielke
2003-07-18 22:29   ` Bitkeeper Scott Robert Ladd
2003-07-18 20:30 ` Bitkeeper Michael Buesch
2003-07-18 20:36   ` Bitkeeper Shawn
2003-07-18 20:44 ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-18 21:03   ` Bitkeeper Shawn
2003-07-18 21:08   ` Bitkeeper David Schwartz
2003-07-18 21:28     ` Bitkeeper Shawn
2003-07-18 21:23   ` Bitkeeper Alan Cox
2003-07-18 21:50     ` Bitkeeper David Lang
2003-07-18 21:54     ` Bitkeeper Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-07-18 22:16       ` Bitkeeper Alan Cox
2003-07-18 22:01     ` Bitkeeper Trever L. Adams
2003-07-18 22:27     ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-19  9:45       ` Bitkeeper Marcus Metzler
2003-07-19 20:42       ` Bitkeeper Adrian Bunk
2003-07-19 21:57         ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-19 22:28           ` Adrian Bunk [this message]
2003-07-19 22:39             ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-19 23:45               ` Bitkeeper Adrian Bunk
2003-07-20  0:02                 ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-20  0:10                   ` Bitkeeper Tupshin Harper
2003-07-20  0:26                     ` Bitkeeper Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-07-20  1:11                       ` Bitkeeper Jeff Garzik
2003-07-20  0:23                   ` Bitkeeper Jeff Garzik
2003-07-20  0:28                   ` Bitkeeper jiho
2003-07-20  0:30                   ` Bitkeeper Valdis.Kletnieks
2003-07-20  0:50                     ` Bitkeeper Larry McVoy
2003-07-20  0:22                 ` Bitkeeper Jeff Garzik
     [not found]               ` <3F19DA04.80809@c-zone.net>
     [not found]                 ` <20030719235526.GA31428@work.bitmover.com>
2003-07-20  0:21                   ` Bitkeeper jiho
2003-07-19 23:57       ` Bitkeeper Pavel Machek
2003-07-18 21:06 ` Bitkeeper Jörn Engel
2003-07-18 22:00   ` Bitkeeper Svein Ove Aas
2003-07-18 22:25     ` BK is not heaven, sure [Was: Re: Bitkeeper] J.A. Magallon
2003-07-18 23:50 ` Bitkeeper James Simmons
2003-07-19  1:05   ` offtopic crap (was Re: Bitkeeper) David S. Miller
2003-07-19 15:00     ` Jeff Garzik
2003-07-20  2:50 ` Bitkeeper Zack Brown
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2006-03-07 16:23 BitKeeper Amit Vijairania
2006-03-07 17:51 ` BitKeeper Yoanis Gil Delgado
2006-03-07 17:08   ` BitKeeper Amit Vijairania
2006-03-07 18:15     ` BitKeeper Yoanis Gil Delgado
2006-03-07 18:33       ` BitKeeper Hans Reiser
2006-03-07 18:31   ` BitKeeper Hans Reiser
2006-03-07 22:27     ` BitKeeper Peter van Hardenberg
2005-04-07 22:03 Bitkeeper Paul Dorman
2005-04-07 22:18 ` Bitkeeper Jacob Gorm Hansen
2005-04-07 23:26   ` Bitkeeper Tupshin Harper
2005-04-07 23:53     ` Bitkeeper Jacob Gorm Hansen
2005-04-07 23:55     ` Bitkeeper Scott Parish
2005-04-08  0:21       ` Bitkeeper Jacob Gorm Hansen
2005-04-08  0:21         ` Bitkeeper Scott Parish
2005-04-08  6:55         ` Bitkeeper Chris Wright
2005-04-10 15:34         ` Bitkeeper Sean Perry
2005-04-11  6:54           ` Bitkeeper Jacob Gorm Hansen
2005-04-12  0:21             ` Bitkeeper David Hopwood
2004-08-16 22:21 Bitkeeper Brown, Len
2004-08-16 21:43 Bitkeeper Nathan Bryant
2003-07-19 16:00 Bitkeeper John Bradford
2003-07-19 16:17 ` Bitkeeper Mark Mielke
2003-07-19 10:33 Bitkeeper John Bradford
2003-02-15  8:21 BitKeeper John Bradford
2003-02-15 22:26 ` BitKeeper Pavel Machek
2003-02-16 11:40   ` BitKeeper John Bradford
2002-10-14 15:11 bitkeeper Cameron, Steve
2002-10-14 15:14 ` bitkeeper Cort Dougan
2002-10-14 15:25 ` bitkeeper Hollis Blanchard
2002-10-15  8:45   ` bitkeeper fred
2002-10-15  9:47     ` bitkeeper Kenneth Johansson

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