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From: Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
To: Lee Revell <rlrevell@joe-job.com>,
	Robert Hancock <hancockr@shaw.ca>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Jeff Garzik <jeff@garzik.org>,
	nigel@nigel.suspend2.net
Subject: Re: NAK new drivers without proper power management?
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:08:39 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070213210838.GA5731@ucw.cz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20070210043514.GA29679@nineveh.rivenstone.net>

Hi!

> > >I would disagree that it's a peripheral issue, it's pretty core these
> > >days, at least for any hardware that you can stuff in a laptop (though a
> > >fair number of desktops get suspended and resumed these days too).
> >
> > Servers are still the most important Linux market, and don't care
> > about suspend/resume.  I would consider implementing suspend./resume
> > for a driver that will only be used in server or HPC class hardware a
> > waste of valuable development resources.
> 
>     Please allow me to be offensively blunt for a moment.
> 
>     So, the situation seems to be:
> 
>     1. The work of the suspend developer who engages the users who put
>        effort into making suspend work on their hardware (bless
>        their addled little heads) often doesn't meet kernel standards,
>        or isn't well enough documented to prove the real *need* for
>        the features and/or hacks that have happened to get actual
>        users' systems sleeping and running again.
> 
>     2. The swsusp maintainer continues in the belief that as long as
>        their are no bug reports in kernel bugzilla or crossing the
>        (relatively obscure) swsusp mailing lists, it has zarro boogs
>        and meanwhile works on the fourth implementation of suspend
>        support in as many years.  It's in CVS on sourceforge.  There's
>        no documentation whatsoever.
....
>     4. "Everybody" knows suspend doesn't work on Linux without a huge
>        amount of tinkering, deep magic, and dead chickens.  Only
>        Gentoo users seem to bother; everyone else waits for Ubuntu
>        12.04 wherein suspend will "just work".  The Gentoo users all
>        use swsusp2, as it contains the hacks to work around:

Suspend just works in suse10.2 (and suse10.1, and suse10.0, ...)...
thanks to work seife did on pm scripts. It
is not my fault if it is broken on your distro.

>     6. Getting proper power-management support in Linux device drivers
>        is not a priority; drivers without any power management support
>        whatsoever should not only be accepted -- they should be merged
>        without comment or complaint.
> 
>    How is working suspend support ever supposed to happen?

If people stopped sending rants and started sending patches... yep,
that would help. I don't have all the notebooks ever produced, sorry.

							Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html

  reply	other threads:[~2007-02-13 21:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 155+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <fa.xSKPgY66Q+DPCZ1pszFFfdrJ0To@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found] ` <fa.FzHdYYYH5Ru57c8/yRxLylpH0Kk@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]   ` <fa.DuG12yQo+RR4jIjJTnoOwtKM0Ao@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]     ` <fa.Jy0FJQtASvVEpsy8Q96uoHtyEVA@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-10  1:50       ` NAK new drivers without proper power management? Robert Hancock
2007-02-10  1:59         ` Lee Revell
2007-02-10  2:09           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  2:22             ` Lee Revell
2007-02-10  3:21               ` Kevin Fox
2007-02-10 20:40               ` Adrian Bunk
2007-02-10  4:35           ` Joseph Fannin
2007-02-13 21:08             ` Pavel Machek [this message]
2007-02-10 12:47           ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-10  2:05         ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  3:27           ` Dmitry Torokhov
2007-02-10  4:18             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  3:02         ` [PATCH] " Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  9:34           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10  9:34             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 10:02             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 10:30               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 10:30                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 17:52                 ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-10 17:52                   ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-10 19:50                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 19:50                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11  6:54                     ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11  6:54                       ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 12:13                       ` Matthew Garrett
2007-02-11 13:09                         ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:09                           ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:19                           ` Matthew Garrett
2007-02-11 13:37                             ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:37                               ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:50                               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 13:50                                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 13:57                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:57                                   ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 14:36                                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 14:36                                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 15:19                                     ` Pekka Enberg
2007-02-11 15:19                                       ` Pekka Enberg
2007-02-11 18:31                                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 18:31                                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 17:27                                     ` Daniel Barkalow
2007-02-11 18:53                                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 18:53                                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:06                                         ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:06                                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:10                                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:10                                             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 21:04                                     ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-11 21:04                                       ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-11 21:10                           ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 17:36                         ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11 22:49                         ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 19:37                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 19:37                     ` Pavel Machek
     [not found]   ` <fa.DhkemAgVI60diqZy0t9GzpwyLmk@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]     ` <fa.E/NjHlgg0HqDg5CgZjnCHFi2AMM@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]       ` <fa.kop49l/7yexJoUGrzk6vVeIP934@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-10 23:20         ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11  0:44           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 17:01             ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 22:40             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:29               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:40                 ` Nigel Cunningham
     [not found]         ` <fa.EgQN5JpU6xrZSLyOY0kWjJ26hUM@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-11 18:31           ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-11 21:52             ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 22:26               ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 22:46                 ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 23:18                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:38                     ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 23:45                       ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12  0:26                       ` Alan
2007-02-12  5:19                         ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-12 20:20                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 22:36                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:23                   ` Alan
2007-02-11 23:38                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:41                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:47                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:50                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:55                       ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12  0:09                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12  0:15                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 12:19               ` Pavel Machek
     [not found]         ` <fa.O1YH4k5KtBGCNs5i2yB17bPvPGw@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]           ` <fa.RfzClbTP/7B79AoEbQLNj3ABfIk@ifi.uio.no>
     [not found]             ` <fa.AaJ/ugmiUmPO8uC+y1rS9JLuuMc@ifi.uio.no>
2007-02-12  0:59               ` Robert Hancock
2007-02-09 21:57 Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 22:17 ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-09 22:26   ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 22:44     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-09 22:44       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-09 22:51       ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 22:51         ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 23:12         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-09 23:12           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-09 23:28           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-09 23:28             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10  0:12             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10  0:12               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10  0:25     ` Jeff Garzik
2007-02-10  6:43       ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-10 23:52         ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-10  7:15     ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-10 19:38   ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-10 22:20     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-10 22:37       ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-10 23:45         ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-11  0:27           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 22:41             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-13 15:55               ` Mark Lord
2007-02-13 16:06                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2007-02-11 22:37           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12  0:10             ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-12  0:20               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12  4:08               ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 20:06                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 22:38                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11  6:46         ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-11 13:04           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 22:47           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 22:57             ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-11 23:20               ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:25                 ` Manu Abraham
2007-02-11 23:29                   ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 23:33                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 16:52                     ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-12 20:31                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 20:58                         ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-12 21:01                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 21:24                             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-12 21:43                               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-13  9:42                         ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-13 19:24                           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-14 23:45                             ` Stefan Richter
2007-02-12  9:45                   ` Arjan van de Ven
2007-02-12 12:59           ` Gerhard Mack
2007-02-12 20:20             ` Willy Tarreau
2007-02-13 15:23               ` Brad Campbell
2007-02-12 20:46             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12 13:51           ` Tino Keitel
2007-02-11 19:42       ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 21:02         ` Alan
2007-02-11 23:04           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-12  0:28             ` Alan
2007-02-12  0:24               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:10           ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:16             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2007-02-11 23:22               ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 23:23                 ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 23:21             ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-11 23:29               ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-11 22:21         ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-12  8:49       ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2007-02-12 15:04         ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-12 15:57           ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2007-02-12 16:55             ` Pavel Machek
2007-02-12 20:38             ` Nigel Cunningham
2007-02-13 10:02             ` Tilman Schmidt
2007-02-10  3:42 ` Matthew Garrett
2007-02-10  4:42   ` Nigel Cunningham

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