From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751076AbXBMVhO (ORCPT ); Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:37:14 -0500 Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org id S1751098AbXBMVhN (ORCPT ); Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:37:13 -0500 Received: from gprs189-60.eurotel.cz ([160.218.189.60]:1179 "EHLO spitz.ucw.cz" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-FAIL) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751076AbXBMVgt (ORCPT ); Tue, 13 Feb 2007 16:36:49 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:08:39 +0000 From: Pavel Machek To: Lee Revell , Robert Hancock , linux-kernel , Jeff Garzik , nigel@nigel.suspend2.net Subject: Re: NAK new drivers without proper power management? Message-ID: <20070213210838.GA5731@ucw.cz> References: <45CD24F6.8090107@shaw.ca> <75b66ecd0702091759q4140680atee2e80f7ca26af03@mail.gmail.com> <20070210043514.GA29679@nineveh.rivenstone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20070210043514.GA29679@nineveh.rivenstone.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Hi! > > >I would disagree that it's a peripheral issue, it's pretty core these > > >days, at least for any hardware that you can stuff in a laptop (though a > > >fair number of desktops get suspended and resumed these days too). > > > > Servers are still the most important Linux market, and don't care > > about suspend/resume. I would consider implementing suspend./resume > > for a driver that will only be used in server or HPC class hardware a > > waste of valuable development resources. > > Please allow me to be offensively blunt for a moment. > > So, the situation seems to be: > > 1. The work of the suspend developer who engages the users who put > effort into making suspend work on their hardware (bless > their addled little heads) often doesn't meet kernel standards, > or isn't well enough documented to prove the real *need* for > the features and/or hacks that have happened to get actual > users' systems sleeping and running again. > > 2. The swsusp maintainer continues in the belief that as long as > their are no bug reports in kernel bugzilla or crossing the > (relatively obscure) swsusp mailing lists, it has zarro boogs > and meanwhile works on the fourth implementation of suspend > support in as many years. It's in CVS on sourceforge. There's > no documentation whatsoever. .... > 4. "Everybody" knows suspend doesn't work on Linux without a huge > amount of tinkering, deep magic, and dead chickens. Only > Gentoo users seem to bother; everyone else waits for Ubuntu > 12.04 wherein suspend will "just work". The Gentoo users all > use swsusp2, as it contains the hacks to work around: Suspend just works in suse10.2 (and suse10.1, and suse10.0, ...)... thanks to work seife did on pm scripts. It is not my fault if it is broken on your distro. > 6. Getting proper power-management support in Linux device drivers > is not a priority; drivers without any power management support > whatsoever should not only be accepted -- they should be merged > without comment or complaint. > > How is working suspend support ever supposed to happen? If people stopped sending rants and started sending patches... yep, that would help. I don't have all the notebooks ever produced, sorry. Pavel -- (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html