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From: Sarah Sharp <sarah.a.sharp@linux.intel.com>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>,
	Guenter Roeck <linux@roeck-us.net>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@linuxfoundation.org>
Cc: Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org>,
	Dave Jones <davej@redhat.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	stable <stable@vger.kernel.org>,
	Darren Hart <dvhart@linux.intel.com>
Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:52:48 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130715155202.GC29526@xanatos> (raw)

On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 18:17:08 +0200, Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org> wrote:
> * Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 8:47 AM, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@goodmis.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I tend to hold things off after -rc4 because you scare me more than Greg
> > > does ;-)
> > 
> > Have you guys *seen* Greg? The guy is a freakish giant. He *should*
> > scare you. He might squish you without ever even noticing.
> 
> Greg might be a giant and he might squish people without ever even 
> noticing, but that's just a grave, deadly physical threat no real kernel 
> hacker ever feels threatened by. (Not much can hurt us deep in our dark 
> basements after all, except maybe earthquakes, gamma ray eruptions and Mom 
> trying to clean up around the computers.)
> 
> So Greg, if you want it all to change, create some _real_ threat: be frank 
> with contributors and sometimes swear a bit. That will cut your mailqueue 
> in half, promise!

On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 08:22:27 -0700, Linus wrote:
> Greg, the reason you get a lot of stable patches seems to be that you
> make it easy to act as a door-mat. Clearly at least some people say "I
> know this patch isn't important enough to send to Linus, but I know Greg
> will silently accept it after the fact, so I'll just wait and mark it
> for stable".
>
> You may need to learn to shout at people.

Seriously, guys?  Is this what we need in order to get improve -stable?
Linus Torvalds is advocating for physical intimidation and violence.
Ingo Molnar and Linus are advocating for verbal abuse.

Not *fucking* cool.  Violence, whether it be physical intimidation,
verbal threats or verbal abuse is not acceptable.  Keep it professional
on the mailing lists.

Let's discuss this at Kernel Summit where we can at least yell at each
other in person.  Yeah, just try yelling at me about this.  I'll roar
right back, louder, for all the people who lose their voice when they
get yelled at by top maintainers.  I won't be the nice girl anymore.

Sarah Sharp

             reply	other threads:[~2013-07-15 15:53 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 339+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-07-15 15:52 Sarah Sharp [this message]
2013-07-15 17:08 ` [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review Linus Torvalds
2013-07-15 17:46   ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-15 17:50     ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-15 18:04       ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-15 18:17         ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-15 18:46           ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-15 19:07             ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-15 19:07             ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-15 19:53               ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-15 20:41                 ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-15 21:01                   ` Kees Cook
2013-07-15 21:50                   ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-15 22:08                     ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Steven Rostedt
2013-07-15 22:27                       ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Randy Dunlap
2013-07-15 22:36                       ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Sarah Sharp
2013-07-15 23:15                         ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-16  0:17                           ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16  3:14                             ` NeilBrown
2013-07-16  3:34                               ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16  3:37                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16  4:12                                   ` Darren Hart
2013-07-16  5:12                             ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-17  7:46                           ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Dan Carpenter
2013-07-15 23:49                         ` Darren Hart
2013-07-16  2:43                           ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Chris Ball
2013-07-16  3:06                             ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16  3:36                               ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-07-16 15:49                                 ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-07-16 16:16                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16 16:58                                     ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-07-16 17:16                                       ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17 11:48                                         ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2013-07-16 19:31                                       ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-07-17  9:17                                         ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-07-17 14:01                                           ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-17 14:40                                             ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-17 14:43                                               ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-19 11:59                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-17 14:43                                               ` Kurt H Maier
2013-07-17 15:04                                               ` Anca Emanuel
2013-07-17 15:12                                               ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-19 12:08                                                 ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-19 18:42                                                   ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-19 18:56                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-19 20:33                                                       ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " James Bottomley
2013-07-19 20:43                                                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-19 23:46                                                           ` NeilBrown
2013-07-19 20:03                                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2013-07-20 12:35                                                       ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-21  1:02                                                         ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Daniel Phillips
2013-07-21  1:02                                                           ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-24  0:51                                                           ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-24  0:51                                                             ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-24  1:26                                                             ` James Bottomley
2013-07-24  1:26                                                               ` James Bottomley
2013-07-24  1:38                                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-24  1:38                                                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-24 16:23                                                                 ` James Bottomley
2013-07-24 16:23                                                                   ` James Bottomley
2013-07-24 16:50                                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-24 16:50                                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-24  1:48                                                               ` Paul Gortmaker
2013-07-24  1:48                                                                 ` Paul Gortmaker
2013-07-24  1:53                                                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-24  1:53                                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-24  8:57                                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-24  8:57                                                               ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-25 14:00                                                               ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-25 14:00                                                                 ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-25 14:33                                                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-25 14:33                                                                   ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-25 14:49                                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-25 14:49                                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-25 22:51                                                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-25 22:51                                                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-25 23:30                                                                     ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-25 23:30                                                                       ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-25 23:44                                                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-25 23:44                                                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-26  5:22                                                                         ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-26  5:22                                                                           ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-20 17:04                                                     ` Ben Hutchings
2013-07-21 13:22                                                       ` Ric Wheeler
2013-07-23  1:26                                                         ` Li Zefan
2013-07-23  1:39                                                           ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-23  2:04                                                             ` Li Zefan
2013-07-17 19:05                                               ` David Miller
2013-07-17 22:02                                               ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-17 22:49                                                 ` Randy Dunlap
2013-07-17 23:08                                                   ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Paul E. McKenney
2013-07-17 23:19                                                     ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-18  0:57                                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2013-07-16 22:54                                       ` Jiri Kosina
2013-07-16 23:03                                         ` Randy Dunlap
2013-07-16 23:11                                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16 23:14                                           ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17  9:38                                         ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-07-17 12:39                                           ` Al Viro
2013-07-17  8:04                                   ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Dan Carpenter
2013-07-16  7:32                         ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) David Lang
2013-07-16  9:14                           ` Olivier Galibert
2013-07-16 21:12                             ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-16 21:27                               ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-16 22:43                                 ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-16 22:54                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16 23:12                                     ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-16 23:20                                       ` Joe Perches
2013-07-16 23:31                                       ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Ric Wheeler
2013-07-16 23:53                                         ` Myklebust, Trond
2013-07-16 23:53                                           ` Myklebust, Trond
2013-07-17  1:21                                           ` Ric Wheeler
2013-07-17  1:21                                             ` Ric Wheeler
2013-07-17  7:36                                           ` CAI Qian
2013-07-17 14:48                                             ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-17 15:09                                               ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17 17:00                                                 ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-07-17 17:15                                                   ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-17 17:56                                                     ` Stefano Stabellini
2013-07-17 18:05                                                       ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-17 18:42                                                       ` Al Viro
2013-07-17 22:24                                                         ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-18  0:29                                                           ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-18  4:59                                                           ` Al Viro
2013-07-17 17:28                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17 19:02                                                     ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-17 17:57                                                   ` Al Viro
2013-07-17 17:52                                                 ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-17 18:51                                                 ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-17 19:04                                                   ` David Lang
2013-07-17 19:29                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17 20:18                                                     ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2013-07-19 10:54                                                     ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-17 19:40                                                   ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-17 22:38                                                   ` David Woodhouse
2013-07-17 23:05                                                   ` Ramkumar Ramachandra
2013-07-18  2:40                                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2013-07-18  3:00                                               ` CAI Qian
2013-07-16 23:38                                       ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16 23:46                                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17 14:01                                         ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Paul Gortmaker
2013-07-17  0:32                                       ` Jeff Liu
2013-07-17  0:51                                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17  1:23                                           ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-17  5:51                                           ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-17 12:21                                             ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17 12:30                                               ` Ricardo Ferreira
2013-07-17 13:03                                                 ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17 13:10                                                   ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-17 15:02                                                   ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-17 15:16                                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17 22:55                                                   ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-17  9:15                                           ` Jeff Liu
2013-07-17 10:58                                             ` James Bottomley
2013-07-17 11:13                                               ` Jeff Liu
2013-07-16 23:01                                   ` Randy Dunlap
2013-07-16 23:50                                   ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-17  0:04                                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17  1:34                                     ` NeilBrown
2013-07-17  2:18                                     ` Ben Hutchings
2013-07-17  3:02                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-17  3:16                                         ` Ben Hutchings
2013-07-17  4:48                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-17  5:22                                             ` Darren Hart
2013-07-17  5:32                                               ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-17 17:41                                                 ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Randy Dunlap
2013-07-17 17:59                                                   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16 22:18                               ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Willy Tarreau
2013-07-16 22:39                                 ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-16 23:46                                   ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Casey Schaufler
2013-07-17  1:02                                     ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-17 10:10                                       ` Ramkumar Ramachandra
2013-07-17 14:27                                       ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-17 18:24                                         ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Luck, Tony
2013-07-17 18:24                                           ` Luck, Tony
2013-07-17 18:46                                           ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-17 18:46                                             ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-16 18:11                           ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Guenter Roeck
2013-07-15 22:38                       ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-15 22:50                         ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-16  4:03                           ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML David Ahern
2013-07-16 20:03                           ` [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Martin Steigerwald
2013-07-16  1:02                         ` Raymond Jennings
2013-07-16 18:27                         ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " James Bottomley
2013-07-16 21:18                           ` Paul E. McKenney
2013-07-17  6:14                             ` James Bottomley
2013-07-17 21:51                               ` Paul E. McKenney
2013-07-18  2:01                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2013-07-19  6:03                                 ` Paul E. McKenney
2013-07-19 16:58                                   ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML H. Peter Anvin
2013-07-16 22:13                           ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) NeilBrown
2013-07-18  9:05                           ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML Paolo Bonzini
2013-07-19  8:21                         ` Dave Chiluk
2013-07-16  3:27                       ` Li Zefan
2013-07-16  3:46                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16 16:51                       ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) David Howells
2013-07-18 10:39                     ` [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review Ingo Molnar
2013-07-18 14:32                       ` J. Bruce Fields
2013-07-18 16:07                       ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-18 16:16                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-18 17:39                         ` Felipe Contreras
2013-07-19  9:22                         ` mistakes in code vs. maintainer flow mistakes (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Ingo Molnar
2013-07-19 10:03                           ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-19 12:16                           ` Kurt H Maier
2013-07-19 19:01                           ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-19 19:16                             ` Martin Steigerwald
2013-07-19 19:17                             ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-19 20:03                             ` Kurt H Maier
2013-07-22 10:55                             ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-23  1:07                             ` mistakes in code vs. maintainer flow mistakes Li Zefan
2013-07-23  1:16                               ` Joe Perches
2013-07-22 11:04                           ` mistakes in code vs. maintainer flow mistakes (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Ingo Molnar
2013-07-16 14:30                   ` [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review Geert Uytterhoeven
2013-07-16 15:00                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16 15:09                     ` Kees Cook
2013-07-16 15:27                       ` Darren Hart
2013-07-17 18:14                 ` open conflicts vs. hidden conflicts (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Ingo Molnar
2013-07-17 22:42                   ` NeilBrown
2013-07-18  9:32                     ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-18  0:42                 ` [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review Thomas Gleixner
2013-07-18  3:16                   ` CAI Qian
2013-07-18  3:47                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-18  4:01                       ` CAI Qian
2013-07-18  5:03                         ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-07-18  6:06                           ` CAI Qian
2013-07-18 10:21                             ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-18 11:35                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-18 13:23                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-18 13:30                           ` Maybe it's time to shut this thread down (Was: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-18 15:54                             ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-20 21:35                               ` [Ksummit-2013-discuss] " Daniel Phillips
2013-07-20 21:35                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-22 21:02                                 ` Luck, Tony
2013-07-22 21:02                                   ` Luck, Tony
2013-07-22 21:29                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-22 21:29                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2013-07-19 21:44                             ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-22 16:45                               ` Kurt H Maier
2013-07-18  4:15                       ` [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review CAI Qian
2013-07-18 15:48                   ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-19 10:35                     ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-24 10:43                 ` Florian Holz
2013-07-16 14:45               ` Alex Elder
2013-07-15 19:17             ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-15 19:23               ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-15 19:39                 ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-15 22:50                 ` Raymond Jennings
2013-07-16  4:52                 ` Rusty Russell
2013-07-16 21:08                   ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-16 21:23                     ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-16 21:58                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2013-07-16 22:12                         ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-17  5:22                           ` Sarah Sharp
2013-07-19 11:10                             ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-16 21:27                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-16 22:11                     ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-17  1:02                     ` Rusty Russell
2013-07-17  1:37                       ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-17  1:54                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-17  3:28                         ` Darren Hart
2013-07-15 22:40               ` NeilBrown
2013-07-16  6:13                 ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-16 15:40                   ` Darren Hart
2013-07-16 18:18                     ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-16  2:44             ` Li Zefan
2013-07-15 19:05           ` J. Bruce Fields
2013-07-15 19:19             ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-15 23:42               ` NeilBrown
2013-07-15 23:50                 ` Joe Perches
2013-07-16  1:54                   ` NeilBrown
2013-07-16  2:01                     ` Joe Perches
2013-07-21  4:15                       ` Rob Landley
2013-07-17  7:01                   ` CAI Qian
2013-07-17  8:39           ` Janne Karhunen
2013-07-15 18:22   ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-15 17:33 ` Darren Hart
2013-07-15 19:04 ` Rob Landley
2013-07-19 11:25   ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-23  8:26 ` Rogelio Serrano
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-07-23  1:42 Regina Obe
2013-07-23  3:43 ` Mike Galbraith
2013-07-23  4:16   ` Regina Obe
2013-07-23  4:49   ` Regina Obe
2013-07-18  3:50 George Spelvin
2013-07-11 22:01 Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-11 22:14 ` Josh Boyer
2013-07-14 22:54   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2013-07-11 22:29 ` Dave Jones
2013-07-11 22:44   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-12  1:51     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-12 14:15     ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-12 15:22       ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-12 15:47         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-12 15:55           ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-12 16:17             ` Ingo Molnar
2013-07-12 16:35               ` Josh Boyer
2013-07-12 16:36                 ` Josh Boyer
2013-07-12 17:05                 ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-14 22:40                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2013-07-12 16:48             ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-12 17:31         ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-12 17:50           ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-12 18:11             ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-12 19:35               ` Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-12 19:49                 ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-12 19:55                   ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-12 20:19                   ` Dave Jones
2013-07-12 20:28                     ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-12 20:31                       ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-12 21:19                       ` Justin M. Forbes
2013-07-13  0:47                       ` Jochen Striepe
2013-07-13 11:11                         ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-13 15:10                           ` Dave Jones
2013-07-13 15:54                             ` Steven Rostedt
2013-07-12 19:50             ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-12 20:47               ` Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-12 21:02                 ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-13  6:22               ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-13  6:36                 ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-13  6:48                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-13  7:12                     ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-15  4:12                       ` Li Zefan
2013-07-15  4:43                         ` Willy Tarreau
2013-07-13 11:42                     ` Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-13 18:27                       ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-14  2:22                         ` Theodore Ts'o
2013-07-14  3:51                           ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-14  5:24                             ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-14 20:31                               ` Geert Uytterhoeven
2013-07-13  6:43                 ` Guenter Roeck
2013-07-13  6:58                   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-14 23:52             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2013-07-15  1:40               ` Linus Torvalds
2013-07-15  2:08                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2013-07-14 22:58     ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2013-07-12 17:20 ` Shuah Khan
2013-07-12 17:29   ` Greg Kroah-Hartman
2013-07-13  4:14 ` Satoru Takeuchi
2013-07-14 23:06 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt

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