From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S933900Ab3GPVSl (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:18:41 -0400 Received: from e37.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.158]:36798 "EHLO e37.co.us.ibm.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1752741Ab3GPVSj (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 17:18:39 -0400 Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 14:18:30 -0700 From: "Paul E. McKenney" To: James Bottomley Cc: Linus Torvalds , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Darren Hart , Linux Kernel Mailing List , stable , Ingo Molnar Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Message-ID: <20130716211830.GX16780@linux.vnet.ibm.com> Reply-To: paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com References: <20130715180403.GD15531@xanatos> <20130715184642.GE15531@xanatos> <20130715195316.GF15531@xanatos> <20130715204135.GH15531@xanatos> <1373926109.17876.221.camel@gandalf.local.home> <1373999229.2148.87.camel@dabdike> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1373999229.2148.87.camel@dabdike> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-TM-AS-MML: No X-Content-Scanned: Fidelis XPS MAILER x-cbid: 13071621-7408-0000-0000-00001212F75D Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt wrote: > > > > > > Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I highly doubt > > > we would solve anything, but it certainly would be a fun segment to > > > watch :-) > > > > I think we should, because I think it's the kind of thing we really > > need at the KS - talking about "process". > > Can you formulate the process issue to discuss? I've heard "Linus needs > to yell less at people" and "the mailing lists need to be more > 'professional'" neither of which seems to identify an actual process. > Are we perhaps discussing guidelines for giving feedback on patches? > > > At the same time, I really don't know what the format would possibly > > be like for it to really work as a reasonable discussion. And I think > > that is important, because this kind of subject is *not* likely > > possible in the traditional "people sit around tables and maybe > > somebody has a few slides" format. > > > A small panel discussion with a few people (fiveish?) that have very > > different viewpoints, along with baskets of rotten fruit set out on > > the tables? That could be fun. And I'm serious, although we might want > > to limit the size of the fruit to smaller berries ;) > > How about Lychees? They're prickly on the outside, very wet on the > inside and have large stones ... They taste good, too. > But what are the viewpoints? "maintainers need to yell more"? > "maintainers need to yell less"? I don't think I agree with either. > I'm perfectly happy to run linux-scsi along reasonable standards of > civility and try to keep the debates technical, but that's far easier to > do on a low traffic list; obviously, I realise that style of argument > doesn't suit everyone, so it's not a standard of behaviour I'd like to > see universally imposed. In fact, I've got to say that I wouldn't like > to see *any* behaviour standard imposed ... they're all basically cover > for power plays (or soon get abused as power plays); the only real way > to display leadership on behaviour standards is by example not by fiat. OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this... 1. Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional rant? [My guess is that we simply have no way of knowing. That said, I would be interested in hearing specific examples of open-source communities that are as doing as well as is the Linux community and that live within stricter social mores. Cue arguments about exactly what "doing well" means...] 2. Could the Linux kernel community's health be improved by banning the occasional rant? [Again, I don't believe that we have any way of knowing.] 3. Is there some reasonable way to accommodate a wide range of styles of interaction within the Linux community? [I hope that the answer is "yes", but it probably becomes impossible if you add the qualifier "that everyone is happy with".] 4. If there is some reasonable way to accommodate a wide range of styles of interaction within the Linux community, can this be done globally, or does this require that people who prefer a specific style confine themselves to portions of the community that practice that specific style? [As I grow older, I become increasingly pessimistic about the possibility of keeping everyone happy, but who knows?] For whatever it is worth... Thanx, Paul > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Ksummit-2013-discuss mailing list > Ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ksummit-2013-discuss >