From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751251Ab3GQBfJ (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:35:09 -0400 Received: from cantor2.suse.de ([195.135.220.15]:57452 "EHLO mx2.suse.de" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750971Ab3GQBfH (ORCPT ); Tue, 16 Jul 2013 21:35:07 -0400 Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:34:44 +1000 From: NeilBrown To: "Theodore Ts'o" Cc: Sarah Sharp , David Lang , ksummit-2013-discuss@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Greg Kroah-Hartman , Darren Hart , Ingo Molnar , Olivier Galibert , stable , Linux Kernel Mailing List , Linus Torvalds , Willy Tarreau Subject: Re: [Ksummit-2013-discuss] [ATTEND] How to act on LKML (was: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review) Message-ID: <20130717113444.7c9184ca@notabene.brown> In-Reply-To: <20130716235008.GC9371@thunk.org> References: <20130715195316.GF15531@xanatos> <20130715204135.GH15531@xanatos> <1373926109.17876.221.camel@gandalf.local.home> <20130715223615.GI15531@xanatos> <20130716211235.GG4994@xanatos> <20130716212704.GB9371@thunk.org> <20130716224357.GK4994@xanatos> <20130716235008.GC9371@thunk.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.9.0 (GTK+ 2.24.18; x86_64-suse-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=PGP-SHA1; boundary="Sig_/mv3J7f+TwO.huPIrVgb4brb"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --Sig_/mv3J7f+TwO.huPIrVgb4brb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 19:50:08 -0400 Theodore Ts'o wrote: > The other question where I think you and Linus differ is the belief > whether polite messages of the form, "it's really rude to break the > kernel ABI, I would rather prefer if you wouldn't do that" are as > effective at establishing community norms, compared with his style of > e-mail messagtes, and whether the priority in establishing community > norms around technical excellence compares with the priority around > community norms around "civility". Can I call "strawman" here? A maintainer has a significant power - to accept, reject, or revert. I fully expect them to use that power. Linus (or any other maintainer) doesn't need to say "I would rather prefer if you wouldn't do that". They say: This is wrong. I will not accept that patch. or This was wrong. I have reverted it. And when absolutely necessary: "After a long succession of uncorrected errors I regret to advise you that I can no longer consider any patches you send". Using emotive language is an attempt to control someone else by addressing them at an emotional level. That sort of control is not needed when the above power is available, and it is a sort of control which is out of conte= xt and can affect different people very very differently. Personally, I find that a blunt but civil acceptance or rejection of patches is quite sufficient to establish community norms of technical excellence. Beyond that there are plenty of examples of very helpful and constructive dialogue that improve patch quality even more. NeilBrown --Sig_/mv3J7f+TwO.huPIrVgb4brb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iQIVAwUBUeX0tDnsnt1WYoG5AQIWbQ//YHRAkZF/804nhZiHZvEgqYsw11+klHxy l2id5WIAPtKSQfBEYZ4STmDU49NrdEbLhKQApKX6/IXWdvSWdtQ2bvsv+decI3+7 KieyCSbm4qUgAcn3br5FsQOAXn2m0jn2j8+r4M8YVcGUhQGP9Q1fstahTV3a83Z8 NZHqUhd8wis7mjqj517OzRrXuOgaoy2yUQFdZB/mtl0pUtUGU6F3fp5+rsyaDIOr YoPG7uBfMRiNr01R9PUNhQ5jQN5ld+sTCCNSxs19o1wTZqT9NHuPPewygLlUidTk t1C8qJbpFDSOlzUjdkp82wm72l0rk80dZ5iLsBiQBmq7oZ/heiTmLICaUT0WtLoJ /GZYu2+sGMk2AJPT0+4jklP1YCBZdc1g2t97wE2EYxNOYw7cP4y6Qq5TigZGxWTm xLeJwoXLPWy5VLIJjJw/SzOgOyBEnhl6xic8rJmIf/5e7rrzBKbdnHMcWyMFYCHH SZXv9+e53GN4gmqmwwETkv0XuXazsv8oBYCspOSXjUEW2cN9BpMbUBsp3OYqH0RR zfSdfDFDBwHMeUC8dBWYCD+rrLh2QUqTiE86ce3UPEAIadFhzVZrOshM3kSkIjQO SBDGcK6txjSEDRifw1MFkkGlLBMGOECdVCRryxkedce/SzIYUS5EmzatzSb6LZI3 9k91zwCeoWM= =AUeW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/mv3J7f+TwO.huPIrVgb4brb--