All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Dave Chinner <david@fromorbit.com>
To: Geoffrey Wehrman <gwehrman@sgi.com>
Cc: Ric Wheeler <rwheeler@redhat.com>,
	Mark Tinguely <tinguely@sgi.com>,
	xfs@oss.sgi.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 48/49] xfs: Add read-only support for dirent filetype field
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:23:25 +1000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20130820022325.GC6023@dastard> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20130819184815.GA24096@sgi.com>

On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 01:48:15PM -0500, Geoffrey Wehrman wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 03:28:13PM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote:
> | Participation requires being open about what you are doing. Posting
> | designs and ideas for comment, communicating your vision for the
> | future, posting code early and often, etc. That enables others to
> | participate at every stage and means that problems/issues are caught
> | early and rejection/acceptance occurs long before final code is
> | written. That's the way open source software is developed and most
> | of the XFS developer community understand that.
> 
> This is a statement we can all agree on.
> 
> | Except, it appears, the maintainers.
> 
> Don't blame the maintainer.  I am not the maintainer.  Send your insults
> my way, not to the maintainer.

No insult, just an observation based on statements made by people
from SGI.

Indeed, you can't have it both ways, Geoffrey. The only thing that
gives you any weight in this discussion is that you are speaking on
behalf of SGI as the maintainer. You're not an active community
participant so if you are not speaking as an SGI XFS maintiner, then
you have no standing to make (unfounded) accusations of bias and
double standards.

Indeed, with all the roles SGI has split the XFS maintainership up
into, there is only one way to refer to the maintainer as a whole:
SGI is the maintainer. I have no idea how to separate what anyone
from SGI says as a personal opinion of that of the maintainer, and
that is a large part of the problem we have here. Nobody can tell if
someone from SGI is speaking as a maintainer or giving an opinion as
a SGI employee. So, you end up being tarred with the same brush.

Now that I think about it, that is probably the underlying source of
all the issues here. The "maintainer" is making conflicting
decisions based on how each change impacts SGI's internal products,
not what is in the best interests of the XFS community. The more I
consider this, the more it explains the problems that we've been
having.

Perhaps we should all go away for a while and consider this:

---

A Maintainer is the community advocate, shepherd and facilitator.

Maintainers lead by example - anything they directly want or need
they write code for, demonstrating best practises in developing that
code.

Maintainers show leadership. They communicate their vision for the
future so that other people can see that vision and so can work
together to acheive it. Maintainers are open to change, to see the
bigger picture, to understand the visions communicated by other
people, how to work those changes into their vision.

Maintainers interact with other developers and subsystems outside
their immediate areas of responsibility. They are responsible for
ensuring that their subsystems integrated effectively into the wider
community at all points - architectural, code and community levels.

Maintainers don't make demands on developers or users - they are
impartial and influence directions through discussion and code. The
maintainer should not attempt to stop developers from taking
different directions, but needs to be able to resolve alternate
opinions in a manner acceptible to all parties.

Maintainers are among the most active individuals in the community.
They support their users, triaging problems and providing bug fixes.
They listen to their users to understand the problems they are
having and determine what needs to be done to help them. The
maintainer spends time to educate users, as a knowledgable user is a
valuable resource that can help other users. They might even become
a valuable developer given enough nuturing.

The maintainer role is to provide and environment that
benefits the community. A maintainer puts the community first and
the own interests second. The maintainer wants the community to
develop and grow and improve, and will place the long term health of
the community ahead of immediate personal or commercial gain.

In a commercial open source world, a vibrant community that the
maintainer can influence and direct is far more valuable to the
maintainer than a community that is at odds with the maintainer. A
community that wants to help each other improve and improve quickly
far outweighs any of the ongoing costs involved in facilitating
such a community.

The role of maintainer is not a right - the maintainer is chosen
through demonstration of the above traits and abilities. It doesn't
matter what background you have or who you work for - the maintainer
role is a position that is earnt through respect for your
endeavours, and so is open to anyone of sufficient calibre.

In the XFS community, we strive to use best practices for our code
and processes, and all developers should be striving to acheive the
level of capability that would place them in consideration of the
maintainer's role.

---

So, as a whole, let's reflect on this for a while before going
any further.  Reflect on where you think you fit, what you think
your place is, whether you consider that you are fulfilling your
place, and how you can improve on what you do and improve your
contributions to the greater XFS community...

Cheers,

Dave.
-- 
Dave Chinner
david@fromorbit.com

_______________________________________________
xfs mailing list
xfs@oss.sgi.com
http://oss.sgi.com/mailman/listinfo/xfs

  reply	other threads:[~2013-08-20  2:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 158+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-07-19  6:24 [PATCH 00/49] current patch queue for 3.12 Dave Chinner
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 01/49] xfs: separate out log format definitions Dave Chinner
2013-07-23 14:00   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 02/49] xfs: split out inode log item format definition Dave Chinner
2013-07-23 14:00   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-30 16:20   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-08-01  8:50     ` Christoph Hellwig
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 03/49] xfs: split out buf log item format definitions Dave Chinner
2013-07-23 14:01   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 04/49] xfs: split out inode log item format definition Dave Chinner
2013-07-23 14:01   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 05/49] xfs: separate dquot on disk format definitions out of xfs_quota.h Dave Chinner
2013-07-24 12:09   ` Brian Foster
2013-08-01  8:51   ` Christoph Hellwig
2013-08-02  1:44     ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 06/49] xfs: separate icreate log format definitions from xfs_icreate_item.h Dave Chinner
2013-07-24 12:09   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 07/49] xfs: split out on-disk transaction definitions Dave Chinner
2013-07-24 12:09   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 08/49] xfs: introduce xfs_rtalloc_defs.h Dave Chinner
2013-07-24 12:09   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 09/49] xfs: introduce xfs_quota_defs.h Dave Chinner
2013-07-25 12:54   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 10/49] xfs: sync minor header differences needed by userspace Dave Chinner
2013-07-25 12:54   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 11/49] xfs: split out transaction reservation code Dave Chinner
2013-07-25 12:55   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 12/49] xfs: move inode fork definitions to a new header file Dave Chinner
2013-07-25 20:40   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 13/49] xfs: move unrealted definitions out of xfs_inode.h Dave Chinner
2013-07-25 19:24   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 14/49] xfs: introduce xfs_inode_buf.c for inode buffer operations Dave Chinner
2013-07-25 19:17   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-26  0:24     ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 12:41   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 15/49] xfs: move getdents code into it's own file Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 13:00   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 16/49] xfs: reshuffle dir2 definitions around for userspace Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 13:18   ` Brian Foster
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 17/49] xfs: split out attribute listing code into separate file Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 20:23   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 18/49] xfs: split out attribute fork truncation " Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 19:25   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 19/49] xfs: split out the remote symlink handling Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 19:48   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 20/49] xfs: introduce xfs_sb.c for sharing with libxfs Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 17:54   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-28  1:08     ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 21/49] xfs: create xfs_bmap_util.[ch] Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 17:57   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 22/49] xfs: minor cleanups Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 18:00   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-28  1:07     ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 23/49] xfs: fix issues that cause userspace warnings Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 18:02   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 24/49] xfs: kill xfs_vnodeops.[ch] Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 19:18   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-27  1:55     ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 18:58       ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 25/49] xfs: consolidate xfs_rename.c Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 19:33   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 26/49] xfs: consolidate xfs_utils.c Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 20:16   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 27/49] xfs: consolidate extent swap code Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 21:16   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:24 ` [PATCH 28/49] xfs: don't special case shared superblock mounts Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 15:32   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 29/49] xfs: kill __KERNEL__ check for debug code in allocation code Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 15:07   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 30/49] xfs: remove __KERNEL__ from debug code Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 15:03   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 31/49] xfs: remove __KERNEL__ check from xfs_dir2_leaf.c Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 14:16   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 32/49] xfs: xfs_filestreams.h doesn't need __KERNEL__ Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 14:10   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 33/49] xfs: move kernel specific type definitions to xfs.h Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 13:51   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 34/49] xfs: make struct xfs_perag kernel only Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 13:32   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 35/49] xfs: Introduce a new structure to hold transaction reservation items Dave Chinner
2013-07-22 13:05   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 36/49] xfs: Introduce tr_fsyncts to m_reservation Dave Chinner
2013-07-22 13:22   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 37/49] xfs: Make writeid transaction use tr_writeid Dave Chinner
2013-07-22 13:23   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 38/49] xfs: refactor xfs_trans_reserve() interface Dave Chinner
2013-07-22 13:27   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-22 23:37     ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 39/49] xfs: Get rid of all XFS_XXX_LOG_RES() macro Dave Chinner
2013-07-22 13:31   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 40/49] xfs: Refactor xfs_ticket_alloc() to extract a new helper Dave Chinner
2013-07-22 13:49   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 41/49] xfs: Add xfs_log_rlimit.c Dave Chinner
2013-07-23 15:15   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 42/49] xfs: Validate log space at mount time Dave Chinner
2013-07-22 13:55   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-25  4:11   ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 43/49] xfs: return log item size in IOP_SIZE Dave Chinner
2013-07-23 18:22   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-08-01  8:18   ` Christoph Hellwig
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 44/49] xfs: Reduce allocations during CIL insertion Dave Chinner
2013-07-23 21:15   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-23 21:44     ` Michael L. Semon
2013-07-24 13:28       ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-24 19:20         ` Michael L. Semon
2013-07-25  0:21         ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-25 15:02           ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-26  0:32             ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-26 20:46         ` Michael L. Semon
2013-07-26 21:06           ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-26 22:19             ` Michael L. Semon
2013-07-27  1:58             ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-27 18:32               ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-28  1:12                 ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-29 14:15                   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-30  0:30                     ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-30 13:31                       ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-30 22:19                         ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 45/49] xfs: avoid CIL allocation during insert Dave Chinner
2013-07-29 18:13   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 46/49] xfs: Combine CIL insert and prepare passes Dave Chinner
2013-07-23 21:21   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-25  0:23     ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-29 21:07   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 47/49] xfs: split the CIL lock Dave Chinner
2013-07-29 22:24   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 48/49] xfs: Add read-only support for dirent filetype field Dave Chinner
2013-07-30 19:10   ` Mark Tinguely
2013-08-12  0:59     ` ***** SUSPECTED SPAM ***** " Dave Chinner
2013-08-12 13:25       ` Mark Tinguely
2013-08-13  0:50         ` Dave Chinner
2013-08-13 15:42           ` Mark Tinguely
2013-08-13 15:57             ` Christoph Hellwig
2013-08-14  7:50             ` Dave Chinner
2013-08-14 18:47               ` Geoffrey Wehrman
2013-08-15  4:22                 ` Dave Chinner
2013-08-15 17:39                   ` Geoffrey Wehrman
2013-08-15  5:59                 ` Ric Wheeler
2013-08-15 18:04                   ` Geoffrey Wehrman
2013-08-15 21:41                     ` Ric Wheeler
2013-08-16 14:08                       ` Geoffrey Wehrman
2013-08-19  5:28                         ` Dave Chinner
2013-08-19 18:48                           ` Geoffrey Wehrman
2013-08-20  2:23                             ` Dave Chinner [this message]
2013-08-20 14:30                               ` Geoffrey Wehrman
2013-08-20 18:27                                 ` Ric Wheeler
2013-08-20 19:47                         ` Eric Sandeen
2013-08-15 16:50                 ` Eric Sandeen
2013-08-15 18:32                   ` Geoffrey Wehrman
2013-08-15 18:41                     ` Eric Sandeen
2013-08-15 19:06                       ` Geoffrey Wehrman
2013-08-15 18:54                   ` Ben Myers
2013-08-15 22:40   ` Ben Myers
2013-07-19  6:25 ` [PATCH 49/49] xfs: Add write " Dave Chinner
2013-07-21  6:23 ` [PATCH 00/49] current patch queue for 3.12 Michael L. Semon
2013-07-22 23:43   ` Dave Chinner
2013-07-23  1:00     ` Michael L. Semon
2013-08-01 21:21 ` Ben Myers

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20130820022325.GC6023@dastard \
    --to=david@fromorbit.com \
    --cc=gwehrman@sgi.com \
    --cc=rwheeler@redhat.com \
    --cc=tinguely@sgi.com \
    --cc=xfs@oss.sgi.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.