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From: Russell King - ARM Linux <linux@arm.linux.org.uk>
To: "Pali Rohár" <pali.rohar@gmail.com>
Cc: Santosh Shilimkar <santosh.shilimkar@ti.com>,
	Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
	Ivaylo Dimitrov <ivo.g.dimitrov.75@gmail.com>,
	Sebastian Reichel <sre@debian.org>, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>,
	linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH] ARM: /proc/cpuinfo: Use DT machine name when possible
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:59:08 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140618195908.GJ32514@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201406182109.59059@pali>

On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 09:09:58PM +0200, Pali Rohár wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 June 2014 21:01:09 Russell King - ARM Linux 
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 06:54:24PM +0200, Pali Rohár wrote:
> > > Machine name from board description is some generic name on
> > > DT kernel. DT provides machine name property which is
> > > specific for board, so use it instead generic one when
> > > possible.
> > 
> > http://archive.arm.linux.org.uk/lurker/message/20130726.132850
> > .53d47576.en.html
> > 
> > "If userspace wants to get at the DT information about a
> > platform, we already have ways that can happen already - we
> > export the DT stuff so that kexec's tools can get at it."
> 
> Userspace application does not know that kernel using DT. And 
> also it does not want to get DT information. Only board/machine 
> name. So existing applications stop working after migration to 
> DT. And because legacy board boot code (without DT) is going to 
> be removed for ARM in near future this will permanently break 
> existing applications.

We're already breaking the userspace API through moving to DT, because
all the device names in /sys/devices are changing.  Userspace is going
to have to cope with change as we move towards DT.  This is just
another aspect of moving towards DT, and one which userspace is going
to have to deal with.

> And sometimes it is even not possible to fix userspace 
> application if is closed source - binary only.

And why do we care about closed source?

If we listened to this argument, then we wouldn't ever be able to
change anything in procfs or sysfs.

Change is inevitable.

-- 
FTTC broadband for 0.8mile line: now at 9.7Mbps down 460kbps up... slowly
improving, and getting towards what was expected from it.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: linux@arm.linux.org.uk (Russell King - ARM Linux)
To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org
Subject: [PATCH] ARM: /proc/cpuinfo: Use DT machine name when possible
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:59:08 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20140618195908.GJ32514@n2100.arm.linux.org.uk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <201406182109.59059@pali>

On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 09:09:58PM +0200, Pali Roh?r wrote:
> On Wednesday 18 June 2014 21:01:09 Russell King - ARM Linux 
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 18, 2014 at 06:54:24PM +0200, Pali Roh?r wrote:
> > > Machine name from board description is some generic name on
> > > DT kernel. DT provides machine name property which is
> > > specific for board, so use it instead generic one when
> > > possible.
> > 
> > http://archive.arm.linux.org.uk/lurker/message/20130726.132850
> > .53d47576.en.html
> > 
> > "If userspace wants to get at the DT information about a
> > platform, we already have ways that can happen already - we
> > export the DT stuff so that kexec's tools can get at it."
> 
> Userspace application does not know that kernel using DT. And 
> also it does not want to get DT information. Only board/machine 
> name. So existing applications stop working after migration to 
> DT. And because legacy board boot code (without DT) is going to 
> be removed for ARM in near future this will permanently break 
> existing applications.

We're already breaking the userspace API through moving to DT, because
all the device names in /sys/devices are changing.  Userspace is going
to have to cope with change as we move towards DT.  This is just
another aspect of moving towards DT, and one which userspace is going
to have to deal with.

> And sometimes it is even not possible to fix userspace 
> application if is closed source - binary only.

And why do we care about closed source?

If we listened to this argument, then we wouldn't ever be able to
change anything in procfs or sysfs.

Change is inevitable.

-- 
FTTC broadband for 0.8mile line: now at 9.7Mbps down 460kbps up... slowly
improving, and getting towards what was expected from it.

  reply	other threads:[~2014-06-18 19:59 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 197+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-06-18 16:54 [PATCH] ARM: /proc/cpuinfo: Use DT machine name when possible Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 16:54 ` Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 19:01 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-18 19:01   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-18 19:09   ` Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 19:09     ` Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 19:59     ` Russell King - ARM Linux [this message]
2014-06-18 19:59       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-19  8:21       ` Pavel Machek
2014-06-19  8:21         ` Pavel Machek
2014-07-11 19:31       ` Pavel Machek
2014-07-11 19:31         ` Pavel Machek
2014-06-18 19:07 ` Rob Herring
2014-06-18 19:07   ` Rob Herring
2014-06-18 19:22   ` Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 19:22     ` Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 20:00     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-18 20:00       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-18 20:20       ` Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 20:20         ` Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 21:53         ` Fabio Estevam
2014-06-18 21:53           ` Fabio Estevam
2014-11-24 22:16           ` Pali Rohár
2014-11-24 22:16             ` Pali Rohár
2014-06-18 20:46     ` Rob Herring
2014-06-18 20:46       ` Rob Herring
2014-06-18 21:47       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-18 21:47         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-18 22:27         ` Rob Herring
2014-06-18 22:27           ` Rob Herring
2014-06-18 23:07           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-18 23:07             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-11-24 22:19       ` Pali Rohár
2014-11-24 22:19         ` Pali Rohár
2014-12-04  0:33         ` Rob Herring
2014-12-04  0:33           ` Rob Herring
2014-12-04  0:48           ` Pali Rohár
2014-12-04  0:48             ` Pali Rohár
2014-12-04 16:49             ` Rob Herring
2014-12-04 16:49               ` Rob Herring
2014-12-04 17:57               ` Pali Rohár
2014-12-04 17:57                 ` Pali Rohár
2014-12-04 18:10                 ` Rob Herring
2014-12-04 18:10                   ` Rob Herring
2015-01-26 19:09                   ` [PATCH] ARM: /proc/cpuinfo: DT: Add support for Revision Pali Rohár
2015-01-26 19:09                     ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-26 20:22                     ` Rob Herring
2015-01-26 20:22                       ` Rob Herring
2015-01-30 14:14                       ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-30 14:14                         ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-30 21:03                         ` Rob Herring
2015-01-30 21:03                           ` Rob Herring
2015-02-27 15:45                           ` Pali Rohár
2015-02-27 15:45                             ` Pali Rohár
2015-02-27 15:55                             ` [PATCH v2 0/2] " Pali Rohár
2015-02-27 15:55                               ` Pali Rohár
2015-02-27 15:55                               ` [PATCH v2 1/2] arm: devtree: Set system_rev from DT revision Pali Rohár
2015-02-27 15:55                                 ` Pali Rohár
2015-02-27 15:55                               ` [PATCH v2 2/2] arm: boot: convert ATAG_REVISION to DT revision field Pali Rohár
2015-02-27 15:55                                 ` Pali Rohár
2015-03-02 11:28                               ` [PATCH v2 0/2] ARM: /proc/cpuinfo: DT: Add support for Revision Pavel Machek
2015-03-02 11:28                                 ` Pavel Machek
2015-03-16 15:44                                 ` Tony Lindgren
2015-03-16 15:44                                   ` Tony Lindgren
2015-03-16 16:14                                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-03-16 16:14                                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-03-16 16:43                                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-03-16 16:43                                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-03-16 19:21                                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-03-16 19:21                                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-03-16 18:10                                     ` Tony Lindgren
2015-03-16 18:10                                       ` Tony Lindgren
2015-03-16 19:59                                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-03-16 19:59                                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-03-16 20:54                                         ` Pali Rohár
2015-03-16 20:54                                           ` Pali Rohár
2015-03-16 20:59                                           ` Tony Lindgren
2015-03-16 20:59                                             ` Tony Lindgren
2015-01-26 22:34                     ` [PATCH] " Andreas Färber
2015-01-26 22:34                       ` Andreas Färber
2015-02-27 15:56                       ` Pali Rohár
2015-02-27 15:56                         ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-26 19:16                   ` [PATCH] ARM: /proc/atags: Export also for DT Pali Rohár
2015-01-26 19:16                     ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-26 20:33                     ` Rob Herring
2015-01-26 20:33                       ` Rob Herring
2015-01-27 13:21                       ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-27 13:21                         ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-27 14:16                         ` Rob Herring
2015-01-27 14:16                           ` Rob Herring
2015-01-27 14:24                           ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-27 14:24                             ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-27 14:32                           ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-27 14:32                             ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-27 17:48                             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-27 17:48                               ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-27 20:03                               ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-27 20:03                                 ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-27 21:09                                 ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-27 21:09                                   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-27 21:34                                   ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-27 21:34                                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-27 21:58                                     ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-27 21:58                                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-27 22:33                                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-27 22:33                                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-28  2:07                                       ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-28  2:07                                         ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-28  6:21                                         ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2015-01-28  6:21                                           ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2015-01-28  7:19                                           ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28  7:19                                             ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28  8:06                                             ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2015-01-28  8:06                                               ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2015-01-28  8:25                                               ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28  8:25                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28  7:18                                         ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28  7:18                                           ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28 13:38                                         ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 13:38                                           ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-27 23:10                                     ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-27 23:10                                       ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28  0:50                               ` Tony Lindgren
2015-01-28  0:50                                 ` Tony Lindgren
2015-01-28 13:58                                 ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 13:58                                   ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 14:33                                   ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-28 15:39                                     ` Tony Lindgren
2015-01-28 15:39                                       ` Tony Lindgren
2015-01-28 15:47                                       ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 15:47                                         ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 15:48                                         ` Tony Lindgren
2015-01-28 15:48                                           ` Tony Lindgren
2015-01-28 16:31                                           ` Jason Cooper
2015-01-28 16:31                                             ` Jason Cooper
2015-01-28 15:57                                     ` Rob Herring
2015-01-28 15:57                                       ` Rob Herring
2015-01-28 16:13                                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-28 16:13                                         ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-28 16:19                                         ` Will Deacon
2015-01-28 16:19                                           ` Will Deacon
2015-01-28 17:01                                           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-28 17:01                                             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-28 17:29                                           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-28 17:29                                             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-28 17:18                                       ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 17:18                                         ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 18:00                                       ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2015-01-28 18:00                                         ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2015-01-28 19:33                                         ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 19:33                                           ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-28 18:03                                       ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28 18:03                                         ` Pavel Machek
2015-01-28 19:27                                         ` Arnd Bergmann
2015-01-28 19:27                                           ` Arnd Bergmann
2015-01-28 14:46                                   ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2015-01-28 14:46                                     ` Jean-Christophe PLAGNIOL-VILLARD
2015-01-27 19:40                         ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-27 19:40                           ` Nicolas Pitre
2015-01-26 20:37                     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-26 20:37                       ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2015-01-26 20:44                       ` Pali Rohár
2015-01-26 20:44                         ` Pali Rohár
2014-12-04 19:00               ` [PATCH] ARM: /proc/cpuinfo: Use DT machine name when possible Pali Rohár
2014-12-04 19:00                 ` Pali Rohár
2014-12-04 10:59           ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-12-04 10:59             ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-06-18 21:10     ` Aaro Koskinen
2014-06-18 21:10       ` Aaro Koskinen
2014-07-11 19:28       ` Pavel Machek
2014-07-11 19:28         ` Pavel Machek
2014-11-24 22:21       ` Pali Rohár
2014-11-24 22:21         ` Pali Rohár
2014-09-05 11:38 ` Pali Rohár
2014-09-05 11:38   ` Pali Rohár
2014-09-05 12:13   ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-09-05 12:13     ` Russell King - ARM Linux
2014-09-10 12:46     ` Pavel Machek
2014-09-10 12:46       ` Pavel Machek
2014-11-24 22:23       ` Pali Rohár
2014-11-24 22:23         ` Pali Rohár
2014-09-05 13:45   ` Mark Rutland
2014-09-05 13:45     ` Mark Rutland
2014-09-05 13:52     ` Pali Rohár
2014-09-05 13:52       ` Pali Rohár
2014-09-05 13:58       ` Mark Rutland
2014-09-05 13:58         ` Mark Rutland
2014-11-24 22:25         ` Pali Rohár
2014-11-24 22:25           ` Pali Rohár
2014-09-05 13:58       ` Fabio Estevam
2014-09-05 13:58         ` Fabio Estevam
2014-11-24 22:27         ` Pali Rohár
2014-11-24 22:27           ` Pali Rohár
2014-09-06 15:34       ` Andreas Färber
2014-09-06 15:34         ` Andreas Färber
2014-11-24 22:29         ` Pali Rohár
2014-11-24 22:29           ` Pali Rohár

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