From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1751826AbdCSNZI (ORCPT ); Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:25:08 -0400 Received: from atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz ([195.113.26.193]:52034 "EHLO atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1751498AbdCSNZG (ORCPT ); Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:25:06 -0400 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 14:25:01 +0100 From: Pavel Machek To: Russell King - ARM Linux Cc: Hans Verkuil , Mauro Carvalho Chehab , Sakari Ailus , Steve Longerbeam , robh+dt@kernel.org, mark.rutland@arm.com, shawnguo@kernel.org, kernel@pengutronix.de, fabio.estevam@nxp.com, mchehab@kernel.org, nick@shmanahar.org, markus.heiser@darmarIT.de, p.zabel@pengutronix.de, laurent.pinchart+renesas@ideasonboard.com, bparrot@ti.com, geert@linux-m68k.org, arnd@arndb.de, sudipm.mukherjee@gmail.com, minghsiu.tsai@mediatek.com, tiffany.lin@mediatek.com, jean-christophe.trotin@st.com, horms+renesas@verge.net.au, niklas.soderlund+renesas@ragnatech.se, robert.jarzmik@free.fr, songjun.wu@microchip.com, andrew-ct.chen@mediatek.com, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, shuah@kernel.org, sakari.ailus@linux.intel.com, devicetree@vger.kernel.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-media@vger.kernel.org, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, Steve Longerbeam , Jacek Anaszewski Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 14/36] [media] v4l2-mc: add a function to inherit controls from a pipeline Message-ID: <20170319132501.GA25673@amd> References: <20170310140124.GV21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> <20170310125342.7f047acf@vento.lan> <20170310223714.GI3220@valkosipuli.retiisi.org.uk> <20170311082549.576531d0@vento.lan> <20170313124621.GA10701@valkosipuli.retiisi.org.uk> <20170314004533.3b3cd44b@vento.lan> <20170317114203.GZ21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170317114203.GZ21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri 2017-03-17 11:42:03, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote: > On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 08:55:36AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote: > > We're all very driver-development-driven, and userspace gets very little > > attention in general. So before just throwing in the towel we should ta= ke > > a good look at the reasons why there has been little or no development:= is > > it because of fundamental design defects, or because nobody paid attent= ion > > to it? > >=20 > > I strongly suspect it is the latter. > >=20 > > In addition, I suspect end-users of these complex devices don't really = care > > about a plugin: they want full control and won't typically use generic > > applications. If they would need support for that, we'd have seen much = more > > interest. The main reason for having a plugin is to simplify testing and > > if this is going to be used on cheap hobbyist devkits. >=20 > I think you're looking at it with a programmers hat on, not a users hat. >=20 > Are you really telling me that requiring users to 'su' to root, and then > use media-ctl to manually configure the capture device is what most > users "want" ? If you want to help users, right way is to improve userland support.=20 > Hasn't the way technology has moved towards graphical interfaces, > particularly smart phones, taught us that the vast majority of users > want is intuitive, easy to use interfaces, and not the command line > with reams of documentation? How is it relevant to _kernel_ interfaces? Pavel --=20 (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blo= g.html --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAljOhq0ACgkQMOfwapXb+vJ9ywCgiLbs4zD6qCIbTw4hAUuhMtfs Y58An3yuL1bl63dFNji5vJn59vsTQqvq =+jHQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Pavel Machek Subject: Re: [PATCH v4 14/36] [media] v4l2-mc: add a function to inherit controls from a pipeline Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 14:25:01 +0100 Message-ID: <20170319132501.GA25673@amd> References: <20170310140124.GV21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> <20170310125342.7f047acf@vento.lan> <20170310223714.GI3220@valkosipuli.retiisi.org.uk> <20170311082549.576531d0@vento.lan> <20170313124621.GA10701@valkosipuli.retiisi.org.uk> <20170314004533.3b3cd44b@vento.lan> <20170317114203.GZ21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7663213165021492083==" Return-path: In-Reply-To: <20170317114203.GZ21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: driverdev-devel-bounces@linuxdriverproject.org Sender: "devel" To: Russell King - ARM Linux Cc: mark.rutland@arm.com, andrew-ct.chen@mediatek.com, minghsiu.tsai@mediatek.com, sakari.ailus@linux.intel.com, nick@shmanahar.org, songjun.wu@microchip.com, Hans Verkuil , Steve Longerbeam , robert.jarzmik@free.fr, devel@driverdev.osuosl.org, markus.heiser@darmarIT.de, laurent.pinchart+renesas@ideasonboard.com, shuah@kernel.org, Mauro Carvalho Chehab , geert@linux-m68k.org, Steve Longerbeam , linux-media@vger.kernel.org, devicetree@vger.kernel.org, kernel@pengutronix.de, arnd@arndb.de, mchehab@kernel.org, bparrot@ti.com, robh+dt@kernel.org, horms+renesas@verge.net.au, tiffany.lin@mediatek.com, Jacek Anaszewski , linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, niklas.soderlund+renesas@ragnatech.se, gregkh@linuxfoundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, Sakar List-Id: devicetree@vger.kernel.org --===============7663213165021492083== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24" Content-Disposition: inline --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri 2017-03-17 11:42:03, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote: > On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 08:55:36AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote: > > We're all very driver-development-driven, and userspace gets very little > > attention in general. So before just throwing in the towel we should ta= ke > > a good look at the reasons why there has been little or no development:= is > > it because of fundamental design defects, or because nobody paid attent= ion > > to it? > >=20 > > I strongly suspect it is the latter. > >=20 > > In addition, I suspect end-users of these complex devices don't really = care > > about a plugin: they want full control and won't typically use generic > > applications. If they would need support for that, we'd have seen much = more > > interest. The main reason for having a plugin is to simplify testing and > > if this is going to be used on cheap hobbyist devkits. >=20 > I think you're looking at it with a programmers hat on, not a users hat. >=20 > Are you really telling me that requiring users to 'su' to root, and then > use media-ctl to manually configure the capture device is what most > users "want" ? If you want to help users, right way is to improve userland support.=20 > Hasn't the way technology has moved towards graphical interfaces, > particularly smart phones, taught us that the vast majority of users > want is intuitive, easy to use interfaces, and not the command line > with reams of documentation? How is it relevant to _kernel_ interfaces? Pavel --=20 (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blo= g.html --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: Digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAljOhq0ACgkQMOfwapXb+vJ9ywCgiLbs4zD6qCIbTw4hAUuhMtfs Y58An3yuL1bl63dFNji5vJn59vsTQqvq =+jHQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- --===============7663213165021492083== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ devel mailing list devel@linuxdriverproject.org http://driverdev.linuxdriverproject.org/mailman/listinfo/driverdev-devel --===============7663213165021492083==-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: pavel@ucw.cz (Pavel Machek) Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 14:25:01 +0100 Subject: [PATCH v4 14/36] [media] v4l2-mc: add a function to inherit controls from a pipeline In-Reply-To: <20170317114203.GZ21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> References: <20170310140124.GV21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> <20170310125342.7f047acf@vento.lan> <20170310223714.GI3220@valkosipuli.retiisi.org.uk> <20170311082549.576531d0@vento.lan> <20170313124621.GA10701@valkosipuli.retiisi.org.uk> <20170314004533.3b3cd44b@vento.lan> <20170317114203.GZ21222@n2100.armlinux.org.uk> Message-ID: <20170319132501.GA25673@amd> To: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org List-Id: linux-arm-kernel.lists.infradead.org On Fri 2017-03-17 11:42:03, Russell King - ARM Linux wrote: > On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 08:55:36AM +0100, Hans Verkuil wrote: > > We're all very driver-development-driven, and userspace gets very little > > attention in general. So before just throwing in the towel we should take > > a good look at the reasons why there has been little or no development: is > > it because of fundamental design defects, or because nobody paid attention > > to it? > > > > I strongly suspect it is the latter. > > > > In addition, I suspect end-users of these complex devices don't really care > > about a plugin: they want full control and won't typically use generic > > applications. If they would need support for that, we'd have seen much more > > interest. The main reason for having a plugin is to simplify testing and > > if this is going to be used on cheap hobbyist devkits. > > I think you're looking at it with a programmers hat on, not a users hat. > > Are you really telling me that requiring users to 'su' to root, and then > use media-ctl to manually configure the capture device is what most > users "want" ? If you want to help users, right way is to improve userland support. > Hasn't the way technology has moved towards graphical interfaces, > particularly smart phones, taught us that the vast majority of users > want is intuitive, easy to use interfaces, and not the command line > with reams of documentation? How is it relevant to _kernel_ interfaces? Pavel -- (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 181 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: