From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52771) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f9FSO-00036a-5j for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2018 15:43:01 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f9FSJ-0003KX-Ba for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2018 15:43:00 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:57708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1f9FSJ-0003JF-28 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2018 15:42:55 -0400 Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 16:42:51 -0300 From: Eduardo Habkost Message-ID: <20180419194251.GZ29865@localhost.localdomain> References: <1520860275-101576-1-git-send-email-imammedo@redhat.com> <87zi21apkh.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <20180417142739.GV29865@localhost.localdomain> <20180417174110.1a7f1daf@redhat.com> <20180417204135.GB29865@localhost.localdomain> <87d0yx2dqp.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <20180419100004.0b560c85@redhat.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180419100004.0b560c85@redhat.com> Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH v4 0/9] enable numa configuration before machine_init() from QMP List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , To: Igor Mammedov Cc: Markus Armbruster , peter.maydell@linaro.org, pkrempa@redhat.com, cohuck@redhat.com, qemu-devel@nongnu.org, pbonzini@redhat.com, david@gibson.dropbear.id.au On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 10:00:04AM +0200, Igor Mammedov wrote: > On Wed, 18 Apr 2018 09:08:30 +0200 > Markus Armbruster wrote: > > > Eduardo Habkost writes: > > > > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 05:41:10PM +0200, Igor Mammedov wrote: > > >> On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 11:27:39 -0300 > > >> Eduardo Habkost wrote: > > >> > > >> > On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 04:13:34PM +0200, Markus Armbruster wrote: > > >> > > Igor Mammedov writes: > > >> > > > > >> > > [...] > > >> > > > Series allows to configure NUMA mapping at runtime using QMP > > >> > > > interface. For that to happen it introduces a new '-preconfig' CLI option > > >> > > > which allows to pause QEMU before machine_init() is run and > > >> > > > adds new set-numa-node QMP command which in conjunction with > > >> > > > query-hotpluggable-cpus allows to configure NUMA mapping for cpus. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Later we can modify other commands to run early, for example device_add. > > >> > > > I recall SPAPR had problem when libvirt started QEMU with -S and, while it's > > >> > > > paused, added CPUs with device_add. Intent was to coldplug CPUs (but at that > > >> > > > stage it's considered hotplug already), so SPAPR had to work around the issue. > > >> > > > > >> > > That instance is just stupidity / laziness, I think: we consider any > > >> > > plug after machine creation a hot plug. Real machines remain cold until > > >> > > you press the power button. Our virtual machines should remain cold > > >> > > until they start running, i.e. with -S until the first "cont". > > >> It probably would be too risky to change semantics of -S from hotplug to coldplug. > > >> But even if we were easy it won't matter in case if dynamic configuration > > >> done properly. More on it below. > > >> > > >> > > I vaguely remember me asking this before, but your answer didn't make it > > >> > > into this cover letter, which gives me a pretext to ask again instead of > > >> > > looking it up in the archives: what exactly prevents us from keeping the > > >> > > machine cold enough for numa configuration until the first "cont"? > > >> > > > >> > I also think this would be better, but it seems to be difficult > > >> > in practice, see: > > >> > http://mid.mail-archive.com/20180323210532.GD28161@localhost.localdomain > > >> > > >> In addition to Eduardo's reply, here is what I've answered back > > >> when you've asked question the 1st time (v2 late at -S pause point reconfig): > > >> https://www.mail-archive.com/qemu-devel@nongnu.org/msg504140.html > > >> > > >> In short: > > >> I think it's wrong in general doing fixups after machine is build > > >> instead of getting correct configuration before building machine. > > >> That's going to be complex and fragile and might be hard to do at > > >> all depending on what we are fixing up. > > > > > > What "building the machine" should mean, exactly, for external > > > users? > under "building machine", I've meant machine_run_board_init() > and all follow up steps to machine_done stage. > > > > The main question I'd like to see answered is: why exactly we > > > must "build" the machine before the first "cont" is issued when > > > using -S? Why can't we delay everything to "cont" when using -S? > Nor sure what question is about, > Did you mean if it were possible to postpone machine_run_board_init() > and all later steps to -S/cont time? Exactly. In other words, what exactly must be done before the monitor is available when using -S, and what exactly can be postponed after "cont" when using -S? > > > > Is it just because it's a long and complex task? Does that mean > > > we might still do that eventually, and eliminate the > > > prelaunch/preconfig distinction in the distant future? > > > > Why would anyone want to use -S going forward? For reasons other "we've > > always used -S, and can't be bothered to change". > We should be able to deprecate/remove -S once we can do all > initial configuration that's possible to do there at > preconfig time. If the plan is to deprecate -S, what are the important user-visible differences between -S and -preconfig today? Do we plan to eliminate all those differences before deprecating/removing -S? > > > > Even if we follow your approach, we need to answer these > > > questions. I'm sure we will try to reorder initialization steps > > > between the preconfig/prelaunch states in the future, and we > > > shouldn't break any expectations from external users when doing > > > that. > As minimum I expect -preconfig to be a runtime equivalent to CLI, > with difference that it will be interactive and use QMP interface. > As long as it sits between CLI parsing and the rest of initialization > it shouldn't break that. What prevents us from making -S a runtime equivalent to CLI? > > > Moreover, the questions need to be answered in Git. Commit message, > > comments, docs/, use your judgement. > I've thought that commit messages/patches were describing introduced > changes sufficiently. But I've been sitting on these patches for > a long time and what's obvious to me might be not so clear to others. > I might just not see what's missing. Any suggestions to improve it > are welcome. I miss something that documents why both -S and -preconfig need to exist, what are the differences between them today, and what we plan to do about the differences between them in the future. -- Eduardo