From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: "Darrick J. Wong" Subject: Re: [REVIEW][PATCH 0/6] Wrapping up the vfs support for unprivileged mounts Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 21:06:20 -0700 Message-ID: <20180525040620.GD4507@magnolia> References: <87o9h6554f.fsf@xmission.com> <20180524214617.GG7712@thunk.org> <87y3g8y6x9.fsf@xmission.com> <20180525035716.GE10363@dastard> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180525035716.GE10363@dastard> List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: containers-bounces-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org Errors-To: containers-bounces-cunTk1MwBs9QetFLy7KEm3xJsTq8ys+cHZ5vskTnxNA@public.gmane.org To: Dave Chinner Cc: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" , Linux Containers , linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org, Seth Forshee , "Eric W. Biederman" , linux-fsdevel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org, Christian Brauner List-Id: containers.vger.kernel.org On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 01:57:16PM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 06:23:30PM -0500, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > "Theodore Y. Ts'o" writes: > > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 06:22:56PM -0500, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > >> > > >> Very slowly the work has been progressing to ensure the vfs has the > > >> necessary support for mounting filesystems without privilege. > > > > > > What's the thinking behind how system administrators and/or file > > > systems would configure whether or not a particular file system type > > > will be allowed to be mounted w/o privilege? > > > > The mechanism is .fs_flags in file_system_type. If the FS_USERNS_MOUNT > > flag is set then root in a user namespace (AKA an unprivileged user) > > will be allowed to mount to mount the filesystem. > > > > There are very real concerns about attacking a filesystem with an > > invalid filesystem image, or by a malicious protocol speaker. So I > > don't want to enable anything without the file system maintainers > > consent and without a reasonable expecation that neither a system wide > > denial of service attack nor a privilege escalation attack is possible > > from if the filesystem is enabled. > > > > So at a practical level what we have in the vfs is the non-fuse specific > > bits that enable unprivileged mounts of fuse. Things like handling > > of unmapped uid and gids, how normally trusted xattrs are dealt with, > > etc. > > > > A big practical one for me is that if either the uid or gid is not > > mapped the vfs avoids writing to the inode. > > > > Right now my practical goal is to be able to say: "Go run your > > filesystem in userspace with fuse if you want stronger security > > guarantees." I think that will be enough to make removable media > > reasonably safe from privilege escalation attacks. > > > > There is enough code in most filesystems that I don't know what our > > chances of locking down very many of them are. But I figure a few more > > of them are possible. > > I'm not sure we need to - fusefs-lkl gives users the ability to > mount any of the kernel filesystems via fuse without us needing to > support unprivileged kernel mounts for those filesystems. /me wonders, is there a fusefs-lkl package for Linux? (He says, knowing that freebsd has one... :)) --D > Cheers, > > Dave. > -- > Dave Chinner > david-FqsqvQoI3Ljby3iVrkZq2A@public.gmane.org From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1752217AbeEYEGm (ORCPT ); Fri, 25 May 2018 00:06:42 -0400 Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:48012 "EHLO userp2120.oracle.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1750795AbeEYEGk (ORCPT ); Fri, 25 May 2018 00:06:40 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 21:06:20 -0700 From: "Darrick J. Wong" To: Dave Chinner Cc: "Eric W. Biederman" , "Theodore Y. Ts'o" , Linux Containers , linux-fsdevel@vger.kernel.org, Seth Forshee , "Serge E. Hallyn" , Christian Brauner , linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org Subject: Re: [REVIEW][PATCH 0/6] Wrapping up the vfs support for unprivileged mounts Message-ID: <20180525040620.GD4507@magnolia> References: <87o9h6554f.fsf@xmission.com> <20180524214617.GG7712@thunk.org> <87y3g8y6x9.fsf@xmission.com> <20180525035716.GE10363@dastard> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20180525035716.GE10363@dastard> User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8903 signatures=668700 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1805250049 Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 01:57:16PM +1000, Dave Chinner wrote: > On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 06:23:30PM -0500, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > "Theodore Y. Ts'o" writes: > > > > > On Wed, May 23, 2018 at 06:22:56PM -0500, Eric W. Biederman wrote: > > >> > > >> Very slowly the work has been progressing to ensure the vfs has the > > >> necessary support for mounting filesystems without privilege. > > > > > > What's the thinking behind how system administrators and/or file > > > systems would configure whether or not a particular file system type > > > will be allowed to be mounted w/o privilege? > > > > The mechanism is .fs_flags in file_system_type. If the FS_USERNS_MOUNT > > flag is set then root in a user namespace (AKA an unprivileged user) > > will be allowed to mount to mount the filesystem. > > > > There are very real concerns about attacking a filesystem with an > > invalid filesystem image, or by a malicious protocol speaker. So I > > don't want to enable anything without the file system maintainers > > consent and without a reasonable expecation that neither a system wide > > denial of service attack nor a privilege escalation attack is possible > > from if the filesystem is enabled. > > > > So at a practical level what we have in the vfs is the non-fuse specific > > bits that enable unprivileged mounts of fuse. Things like handling > > of unmapped uid and gids, how normally trusted xattrs are dealt with, > > etc. > > > > A big practical one for me is that if either the uid or gid is not > > mapped the vfs avoids writing to the inode. > > > > Right now my practical goal is to be able to say: "Go run your > > filesystem in userspace with fuse if you want stronger security > > guarantees." I think that will be enough to make removable media > > reasonably safe from privilege escalation attacks. > > > > There is enough code in most filesystems that I don't know what our > > chances of locking down very many of them are. But I figure a few more > > of them are possible. > > I'm not sure we need to - fusefs-lkl gives users the ability to > mount any of the kernel filesystems via fuse without us needing to > support unprivileged kernel mounts for those filesystems. /me wonders, is there a fusefs-lkl package for Linux? (He says, knowing that freebsd has one... :)) --D > Cheers, > > Dave. > -- > Dave Chinner > david@fromorbit.com