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From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: Andrea Parri <andrea.parri@amarulasolutions.com>
Cc: Will Deacon <will.deacon@arm.com>,
	Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>,
	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@linux.vnet.ibm.com>,
	LKMM Maintainers -- Akira Yokosawa <akiyks@gmail.com>,
	Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com>,
	Daniel Lustig <dlustig@nvidia.com>,
	David Howells <dhowells@redhat.com>,
	Jade Alglave <j.alglave@ucl.ac.uk>,
	Luc Maranget <luc.maranget@inria.fr>,
	Nicholas Piggin <npiggin@gmail.com>,
	Kernel development list <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v2] tools/memory-model: Add extra ordering for locks and remove it for ordinary release/acquire
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 09:40:40 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20180712074040.GA4920@worktop.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20180711123421.GA9673@andrea>

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 02:34:21PM +0200, Andrea Parri wrote:
> Simplicity is the eye of the beholder.  From my POV (LKMM maintainer), the
> simplest solution would be to get rid of rfi-rel-acq and unlock-rf-lock-po
> (or its analogous in v3) all together:

<snip>

> Among other things, this would immediately:
> 
>   1) Enable RISC-V to use their .aq/.rl annotations _without_ having to
>      "worry" about tso or release/acquire fences; IOW, this will permit
>      a partial revert of:
> 
>        0123f4d76ca6 ("riscv/spinlock: Strengthen implementations with fences")
>        5ce6c1f3535f ("riscv/atomic: Strengthen implementations with fences")

But I feel this goes in the wrong direction. This weakens the effective
memory model, where I feel we should strengthen it.

Currently PowerPC is the weakest here, and the above RISC-V changes
(reverts) would make RISC-V weaker still.

Any any effective weakening makes me very uncomfortable -- who knows
what will come apart this time. This memory ordering stuff causes
horrible subtle bugs at best.

>   2) Resolve the above mentioned controversy (the inconsistency between
>      - locking operations and atomic RMWs on one side, and their actual
>      implementation in generic code on the other), thus enabling the use
>      of LKMM _and_ its tools for the analysis/reviewing of the latter.

This is a good point; so lets see if there is something we can do to
strengthen the model so it all works again.

And I think if we raise atomic*_acquire() to require TSO (but ideally
raise it to RCsc) we're there.

The TSO archs have RCpc load-acquire and store-release, but fully
ordered atomics. Most of the other archs have smp_mb() everything, with
the exception of PPC, ARM64 and now RISC-V.

PPC has the RCpc TSO fence LWSYNC, ARM64 has the RCsc
load-acquire/store-release. And RISC-V has a gazillion of options IIRC.


So ideally atomic*_acquire() + smp_store_release() will be RCsc, and is
with the notable exception of PPC, and ideally RISC-V would be RCsc
here. But at the very least it should not be weaker than PPC.

By increasing atomic*_acquire() to TSO we also immediately get the
proposed:

  P0()
  {
	  WRITE_ONCE(X, 1);
	  spin_unlock(&s);
	  spin_lock(&s);
	  WRITE_ONCE(Y, 1);
  }

  P1()
  {
	  r1 = READ_ONCE(Y);
	  smp_rmb();
	  r2 = READ_ONCE(X);
  }

behaviour under discussion; because the spin_lock() will imply the TSO
ordering.

And note that this retains regular RCpc ACQUIRE for smp_load_acquire()
and associated primitives -- as they have had since their introduction
not too long ago.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2018-07-12  7:40 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 84+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-07-09 20:01 [PATCH v2] tools/memory-model: Add extra ordering for locks and remove it for ordinary release/acquire Alan Stern
2018-07-09 21:45 ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10 13:57   ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 16:25     ` Paul E. McKenney
     [not found]       ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1807101416390.1449-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>
2018-07-10 19:58         ` [PATCH v3] " Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10 20:24           ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 20:31             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11  9:43         ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 15:42           ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11 16:17             ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 18:03               ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-11 16:34           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-11 18:10             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-10  9:38 ` [PATCH v2] " Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 14:48   ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 15:24     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 15:34       ` Alan Stern
2018-07-10 23:14         ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11  9:43   ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 12:34     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 12:54       ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 15:57       ` Will Deacon
2018-07-11 16:28         ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 17:00         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-11 17:50           ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-12  8:34             ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12  9:29             ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12  7:40       ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2018-07-12  9:34         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12  9:45           ` Will Deacon
2018-07-13  2:17             ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-12 11:52         ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 12:01           ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 12:11             ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 13:48           ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 16:19             ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-12 17:04             ` Alan Stern
2018-07-12 17:14               ` Will Deacon
2018-07-12 17:28               ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-12 18:05                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 18:10                   ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-12 19:52                     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 20:24                       ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-13  2:05                     ` Daniel Lustig
2018-07-13  4:03                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-13  9:07                       ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-13  9:35                         ` Will Deacon
2018-07-13 17:16                           ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-13 19:06                             ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-14  1:51                               ` Alan Stern
2018-07-14  2:58                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-16  2:31                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-13 11:08                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-13 13:15                       ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-13 16:42                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-13 19:56                           ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-16 14:40                           ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-16 19:01                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-16 19:30                             ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 14:45                               ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-17 16:19                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 18:33                                   ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 18:42                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-17 19:40                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:47                                       ` Alan Stern
2018-07-17 18:44                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 18:49                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 19:42                                         ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:37                                       ` Alan Stern
2018-07-17 20:13                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2018-07-17 19:38                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-17 19:40                                     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-17 19:52                                       ` Paul E. McKenney
2018-07-18 12:31                                   ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-18 13:16                             ` Michael Ellerman
2018-07-12 17:52               ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 20:43                 ` Alan Stern
2018-07-12 21:13                   ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 21:23                     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-12 18:33               ` Peter Zijlstra
2018-07-12 17:45             ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-10 16:56 ` Daniel Lustig
     [not found]   ` <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.1807101315140.1449-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>
2018-07-10 23:31     ` Andrea Parri
2018-07-11 14:19       ` Alan Stern

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