From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from list by lists.gnu.org with archive (Exim 4.71) id 1fnOcI-0006xp-TP for mharc-grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:35:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53146) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fnOcB-0006vN-FN for grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:35:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fnOc7-00059Z-Gs for grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:35:03 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x542.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::542]:37221) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fnOc7-00059H-9L for grub-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 09:34:59 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-x542.google.com with SMTP id n7-v6so1113021pgq.4 for ; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 06:34:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=1QdcR28xiWn1qIpC6C09jQYAmxSgdnJGd+NPID2elqo=; b=Qg8q9YbbURQMxD3OKvO2x39b0mH5PGcYLActJkh0yEvA52X+pGXQbdohqkcE7g1qjF x28M2b1wBDK+5OHHJ0M4CptxHNeBdOFBo+7niY3u4/iUOpc3J+fN2hbnnm6KtWl8kedr 5BRZqT8D/f0rQeLDenYQNu5qc7Y6pr4tJNs95bfWZqd9jHTFF0mhLnZCTFs6zeFKjq9i QtPv4X+kO2nbI7V48lHhfWkoVc+9GCYQ9qTf2yXHQ5PMExAH2msWEt1YYSyQgbM3xj2U IGHk+G4umatykUWTJHi5qLZr1niZpTpEgwcDrfOQ6qB/F67ROBf/QD0y+5ACLmTjotZS abwQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; bh=1QdcR28xiWn1qIpC6C09jQYAmxSgdnJGd+NPID2elqo=; b=NZuzXNl7Nckt1LlovjPZwWa4if0Sg2EX8vFRVRwfDJcoat72bLN7i1OPchM7RdegnF R16bd5zFyMUhVk6D93l20oHO/qNx2XvdNH9dEn5p4DeRG2MIn6Taf4SNuX4egUVYhLVu y8Qx9nxSU2HWALNGfRHa1DiBeLFJp+IbDgwThqWOAJNAa608GGHBn4bwFt7MXI5OB0/n 5DgVUhtOjK/u0sPUJLNvil23sEGhsyUpxXf/QcW9S8Y/6LssQc6vQlrcZuguoq4G5KDI wJm+bhTn80re/PicTJEnI8CSSw8sewK5B2dvOD0Du83ACR9l2mnPjstrTaJS68HuS5fT 1fJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlFvZF88anbLO5ccNY/9LtI7WzDBnpMZ4s4wkNtsCtgW7G+zFDZ0 e5yBrPFfaXUYFevC0WSP7cmGS5yO X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPz0neYxEDvcyys5OdAgkG4YWNDA3HWpbbL9D8KG2qQMPH3iTIdIn78mXR7j71QXoVcT1Hntow== X-Received: by 2002:a63:d15:: with SMTP id c21-v6mr2680261pgl.322.1533735298057; Wed, 08 Aug 2018 06:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bubble.grove.modra.org ([58.175.241.133]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b62-v6sm8488535pfm.97.2018.08.08.06.34.56 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Wed, 08 Aug 2018 06:34:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bubble.grove.modra.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C44780E2B; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 23:04:53 +0930 (ACST) Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 23:04:53 +0930 From: Alan Modra To: "Maciej W. Rozycki" Cc: Nick Clifton , John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , binutils@sourceware.org, The development of GNU GRUB Subject: Re: Recent removal of a.out and COFF support for sparc Message-ID: <20180808133453.GB1544@bubble.grove.modra.org> References: <2d2f1c2a-1715-1348-c35a-ad562a3acbb2@physik.fu-berlin.de> <27449274-9250-97a3-1ff9-8b9c818659d4@physik.fu-berlin.de> <20180808015529.GP26457@bubble.grove.modra.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::542 X-BeenThere: grub-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: The development of GNU GRUB List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 13:35:09 -0000 On Wed, Aug 08, 2018 at 11:59:22AM +0100, Maciej W. Rozycki wrote: > Alan, > > > > So, can we have COFF/a.out support back, at least for sparc*? > > > > I would rather remove all AOUT support. AOUT as a format has been > > obsolete since the advent of ELF in the 1990s. See for example > > J. Arnold "ELF: An Object File to Mitigate Mischievous Misoneism", In > > Proc. of the Summer USENIX Conference, 1990. > > COFF should have died too.. > > > > The sparc target obsolescence happened here: > > https://sourceware.org/ml/binutils/2016-09/msg00184.html > > > > You've had quite a bit of warning, but I guess you just built binutils > > with --enable-obsolete, or stayed with older binutils. Well, older > > binutils are likely to be better for AOUT anyway. So what's to > > prevent you using older binutils for sparc-aout? > > I don't like things being put that way and I find it against the spirit > of free software and its mission to deliver superior solutions that do not > put unnecessary limits upon users. If people have a need for a feature, > then I think it is the wrong thing to refuse it from the position of > authority given that code for that exists. I'm grumpy, but the advice about using older binutils for unmaintained ports is good. I'm also not against reinstating sparc-aout if someone maintains it, but doubt there is anyone wanting to do the work. "git log bfd/aoutx.h" if you want an illustration of points I make in my other reply on this thread. > However, as usually, we, as a group of people working on binutils, are a > limited resource and cannot afford taking care of less commonly used > features we have no use for ourselves. So I think a fair way of putting > things would be to offer the resurrection of the feature provided that > someone steps in and offers to maintain it properly, so that other people, > and general maintainers in particular, do not have to worry about it. > > I suspect that, just like with MIPS ECOFF support, it will be enough if > we have BFD support, so that tools like `objcopy' and `objdump' continue > working, and all the hairy linker infrastructure can go. But that would > have to be confirmed by actual users. Same about GDB if required; I > believe the same basic BFD support will suffice to support the GDB side. > > FWIW, > > Maciej -- Alan Modra Australia Development Lab, IBM