Re: [Qemu-devel] [multiprocess RFC PATCH 36/37] multi-process: add the concept description to docs/devel/qemu-multiprocess

From: Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com>
To: John G Johnson <john.g.johnson@oracle.com>
Cc: "\"Daniel P. Berrangé\"" <berrange@redhat.com>,
	"Elena Ufimtseva" <elena.ufimtseva@oracle.com>,
	sstabellini@kernel.org, "Jag Raman" <jag.raman@oracle.com>,
	konrad.wilk@oracle.com, "Stefan Hajnoczi" <stefanha@gmail.com>,
	qemu-devel@nongnu.org, ross.lagerwall@citrix.com,
	liran.alon@oracle.com, kanth.ghatraju@oracle.com
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [multiprocess RFC PATCH 36/37] multi-process: add the concept description to docs/devel/qemu-multiprocess
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 09:50:36 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20190308095036.GC12318@stefanha-x1.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <BDEBF2EE-DE0F-46CF-B60E-536B3DA9BF77@oracle.com>

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On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 03:29:41PM -0800, John G Johnson wrote:
> > On Mar 7, 2019, at 11:27 AM, Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 02:51:20PM +0000, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> >> On Thu, Mar 07, 2019 at 02:26:09PM +0000, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> >>> On Wed, Mar 06, 2019 at 11:22:53PM -0800, elena.ufimtseva@oracle.com wrote:
> >>>> diff --git a/docs/devel/qemu-multiprocess.txt b/docs/devel/qemu-multiprocess.txt
> >>>> new file mode 100644
> >>>> index 0000000..e29c6c8
> >>>> --- /dev/null
> >>>> +++ b/docs/devel/qemu-multiprocess.txt
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks for this document and the interesting work that you are doing.
> >>> I'd like to discuss the security advantages gained by disaggregating
> >>> QEMU in more detail.
> >>> 
> >>> The security model for VMs managed by libvirt (most production x86, ppc,
> >>> s390 guests) is that the QEMU process is untrusted and only has access
> >>> to resources belonging to the guest.  SELinux is used to restrict the
> >>> process from accessing other files, processes, etc on the host.
> >> 
> >> NB it doesn't have to be SELinux. Libvirt also supports AppArmor and
> >> can even do isolation with traditional DAC by putting each QEMU under
> >> a distinct UID/GID and having libvirtd set ownership on resources each
> >> VM is permitted to use.
> >> 
> >>> QEMU does not hold privileged resources that must be kept away from the
> >>> guest.  An escaped guest can access its image file, tap file descriptor,
> >>> etc but they are the same resources it could already access via device
> >>> emulation.
> >>> 
> >>> Can you give specific examples of how disaggregation improves security?
> > 
> > Elena & collaborators: Dan has posted some ideas but please share yours
> > so the security benefits of this patch series can be better understood.
> > 
> 
> 	Dan covered the main point.  The security regime we use (selinux)
> constrains the actions of processes on objects, so having multiple processes
> allows us to apply more fine-grained policies.

Please share the SELinux policy files, containerization scripts, etc.
There is probably a home for them in qemu.git, libvirt.git, or elsewhere
upstream.

We need to find a way to make the sandboxing improvements available to
users besides yourself and easily reusable for developers who wish to
convert additional device models.

Thanks,
Stefan

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