From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Oleg Nesterov Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 15:22:53 +0000 Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/2] pid: add pidfd_open() Message-Id: <20190516152252.GD22564@redhat.com> List-Id: References: <20190516135944.7205-1-christian@brauner.io> <20190516142659.GB22564@redhat.com> <20190516145607.j43xyj26k6l5vmbd@yavin> <20190516150611.GC22564@redhat.com> <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> In-Reply-To: <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Aleksa Sarai Cc: Christian Brauner , jannh@google.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, akpm@linux-foundation.org, dhowells@redhat.com, ebiederm@xmission.com, elena.reshetova@intel.com, keescook@chromium.org, luto@amacapital.net, luto@kernel.org, tglx@linutronix.de, linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org, linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, joel@joelfernandes.orgda On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > > > On 05/16, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > > With the introduction of pidfds through CLONE_PIDFD it is possible to > > > > > created pidfds at process creation time. > > > > > > > > Now I am wondering why do we need CLONE_PIDFD, you can just do > > > > > > > > pid = fork(); > > > > pidfd_open(pid); > > > > > > While the race window would be exceptionally short, there is the > > > possibility that the child will die > > > > Yes, > > > > > and their pid will be recycled > > > before you do pidfd_open(). > > > > No. > > > > Unless the caller's sub-thread does wait() before pidfd_open(), of course. > > Or unless you do signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_IGN). > > What about CLONE_PARENT? I should have mentioned CLONE_PARENT ;) Of course in this case the child can be reaped before pidfd_open(). But how often do you or other people use clone(CLONE_PARENT) ? not to mention you can trivially eliminate/detect this race if you really need this. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that CLONE_PIDFD is a bad idea. But to me pidfd_open() is much more useful. Say, as a perl programmer I can easily use pidfd_open(), but not CLONE_PIDFD. Oleg. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31AEC04E84 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from vger.kernel.org (vger.kernel.org [209.132.180.67]) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0382087B for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: (majordomo@vger.kernel.org) by vger.kernel.org via listexpand id S1727429AbfEPPXB (ORCPT ); Thu, 16 May 2019 11:23:01 -0400 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]:46970 "EHLO mx1.redhat.com" rhost-flags-OK-OK-OK-OK) by vger.kernel.org with ESMTP id S1726801AbfEPPXB (ORCPT ); Thu, 16 May 2019 11:23:01 -0400 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx07.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6D1B81F0D; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dhcp-27-174.brq.redhat.com (unknown [10.43.17.159]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CF52210027B9; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:22:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dhcp-27-174.brq.redhat.com (nbSMTP-1.00) for uid 1000 oleg@redhat.com; Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:53 +0200 From: Oleg Nesterov To: Aleksa Sarai Cc: Christian Brauner , jannh@google.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, akpm@linux-foundation.org, dhowells@redhat.com, ebiederm@xmission.com, elena.reshetova@intel.com, keescook@chromium.org, luto@amacapital.net, luto@kernel.org, tglx@linutronix.de, linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org, linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, joel@joelfernandes.org, dancol@google.com, serge@hallyn.com, Geert Uytterhoeven Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/2] pid: add pidfd_open() Message-ID: <20190516152252.GD22564@redhat.com> References: <20190516135944.7205-1-christian@brauner.io> <20190516142659.GB22564@redhat.com> <20190516145607.j43xyj26k6l5vmbd@yavin> <20190516150611.GC22564@redhat.com> <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.27]); Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:01 +0000 (UTC) Sender: linux-parisc-owner@vger.kernel.org Precedence: bulk List-ID: X-Mailing-List: linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > > > On 05/16, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > > With the introduction of pidfds through CLONE_PIDFD it is possible to > > > > > created pidfds at process creation time. > > > > > > > > Now I am wondering why do we need CLONE_PIDFD, you can just do > > > > > > > > pid = fork(); > > > > pidfd_open(pid); > > > > > > While the race window would be exceptionally short, there is the > > > possibility that the child will die > > > > Yes, > > > > > and their pid will be recycled > > > before you do pidfd_open(). > > > > No. > > > > Unless the caller's sub-thread does wait() before pidfd_open(), of course. > > Or unless you do signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_IGN). > > What about CLONE_PARENT? I should have mentioned CLONE_PARENT ;) Of course in this case the child can be reaped before pidfd_open(). But how often do you or other people use clone(CLONE_PARENT) ? not to mention you can trivially eliminate/detect this race if you really need this. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that CLONE_PIDFD is a bad idea. But to me pidfd_open() is much more useful. Say, as a perl programmer I can easily use pidfd_open(), but not CLONE_PIDFD. Oleg. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Oleg Nesterov Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/2] pid: add pidfd_open() Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:53 +0200 Message-ID: <20190516152252.GD22564@redhat.com> References: <20190516135944.7205-1-christian@brauner.io> <20190516142659.GB22564@redhat.com> <20190516145607.j43xyj26k6l5vmbd@yavin> <20190516150611.GC22564@redhat.com> <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-Archive: List-Post: To: Aleksa Sarai Cc: Christian Brauner , jannh@google.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, akpm@linux-foundation.org, dhowells@redhat.com, ebiederm@xmission.com, elena.reshetova@intel.com, keescook@chromium.org, luto@amacapital.net, luto@kernel.org, tglx@linutronix.de, linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org, linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, joel@joelfernandes.orgda List-ID: On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > > > On 05/16, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > > With the introduction of pidfds through CLONE_PIDFD it is possible to > > > > > created pidfds at process creation time. > > > > > > > > Now I am wondering why do we need CLONE_PIDFD, you can just do > > > > > > > > pid = fork(); > > > > pidfd_open(pid); > > > > > > While the race window would be exceptionally short, there is the > > > possibility that the child will die > > > > Yes, > > > > > and their pid will be recycled > > > before you do pidfd_open(). > > > > No. > > > > Unless the caller's sub-thread does wait() before pidfd_open(), of course. > > Or unless you do signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_IGN). > > What about CLONE_PARENT? I should have mentioned CLONE_PARENT ;) Of course in this case the child can be reaped before pidfd_open(). But how often do you or other people use clone(CLONE_PARENT) ? not to mention you can trivially eliminate/detect this race if you really need this. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that CLONE_PIDFD is a bad idea. But to me pidfd_open() is much more useful. Say, as a perl programmer I can easily use pidfd_open(), but not CLONE_PIDFD. Oleg. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: oleg at redhat.com (Oleg Nesterov) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:53 +0200 Subject: [PATCH v1 1/2] pid: add pidfd_open() In-Reply-To: <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> References: <20190516135944.7205-1-christian@brauner.io> <20190516142659.GB22564@redhat.com> <20190516145607.j43xyj26k6l5vmbd@yavin> <20190516150611.GC22564@redhat.com> <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> Message-ID: <20190516152252.GD22564@redhat.com> On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > > > On 05/16, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > > With the introduction of pidfds through CLONE_PIDFD it is possible to > > > > > created pidfds at process creation time. > > > > > > > > Now I am wondering why do we need CLONE_PIDFD, you can just do > > > > > > > > pid = fork(); > > > > pidfd_open(pid); > > > > > > While the race window would be exceptionally short, there is the > > > possibility that the child will die > > > > Yes, > > > > > and their pid will be recycled > > > before you do pidfd_open(). > > > > No. > > > > Unless the caller's sub-thread does wait() before pidfd_open(), of course. > > Or unless you do signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_IGN). > > What about CLONE_PARENT? I should have mentioned CLONE_PARENT ;) Of course in this case the child can be reaped before pidfd_open(). But how often do you or other people use clone(CLONE_PARENT) ? not to mention you can trivially eliminate/detect this race if you really need this. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that CLONE_PIDFD is a bad idea. But to me pidfd_open() is much more useful. Say, as a perl programmer I can easily use pidfd_open(), but not CLONE_PIDFD. Oleg. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: oleg@redhat.com (Oleg Nesterov) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:53 +0200 Subject: [PATCH v1 1/2] pid: add pidfd_open() In-Reply-To: <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> References: <20190516135944.7205-1-christian@brauner.io> <20190516142659.GB22564@redhat.com> <20190516145607.j43xyj26k6l5vmbd@yavin> <20190516150611.GC22564@redhat.com> <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> Message-ID: <20190516152252.GD22564@redhat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID: <20190516152253.0Sat4ktPkRA995t2XO7G8O96AhCcgW728ffr7tk8dLI@z> On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > > > On 05/16, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > > With the introduction of pidfds through CLONE_PIDFD it is possible to > > > > > created pidfds at process creation time. > > > > > > > > Now I am wondering why do we need CLONE_PIDFD, you can just do > > > > > > > > pid = fork(); > > > > pidfd_open(pid); > > > > > > While the race window would be exceptionally short, there is the > > > possibility that the child will die > > > > Yes, > > > > > and their pid will be recycled > > > before you do pidfd_open(). > > > > No. > > > > Unless the caller's sub-thread does wait() before pidfd_open(), of course. > > Or unless you do signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_IGN). > > What about CLONE_PARENT? I should have mentioned CLONE_PARENT ;) Of course in this case the child can be reaped before pidfd_open(). But how often do you or other people use clone(CLONE_PARENT) ? not to mention you can trivially eliminate/detect this race if you really need this. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that CLONE_PIDFD is a bad idea. But to me pidfd_open() is much more useful. Say, as a perl programmer I can easily use pidfd_open(), but not CLONE_PIDFD. Oleg. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4AEC04AAF for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:24:28 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.ozlabs.org (lists.ozlabs.org [203.11.71.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FD5320657 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:24:27 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 0FD5320657 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=linuxppc-dev-bounces+linuxppc-dev=archiver.kernel.org@lists.ozlabs.org Received: from lists.ozlabs.org (lists.ozlabs.org [IPv6:2401:3900:2:1::3]) by lists.ozlabs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454Zw95jvczDqg7 for ; 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Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:53 +0200 From: Oleg Nesterov To: Aleksa Sarai Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/2] pid: add pidfd_open() Message-ID: <20190516152252.GD22564@redhat.com> References: <20190516135944.7205-1-christian@brauner.io> <20190516142659.GB22564@redhat.com> <20190516145607.j43xyj26k6l5vmbd@yavin> <20190516150611.GC22564@redhat.com> <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.27]); Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:01 +0000 (UTC) X-BeenThere: linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Linux on PowerPC Developers Mail List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, dhowells@redhat.com, joel@joelfernandes.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, elena.reshetova@intel.com, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, dancol@google.com, Geert Uytterhoeven , Christian Brauner , serge@hallyn.com, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, keescook@chromium.org, arnd@arndb.de, jannh@google.com, linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, luto@kernel.org, tglx@linutronix.de, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, luto@amacapital.net, ebiederm@xmission.com, linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org Errors-To: linuxppc-dev-bounces+linuxppc-dev=archiver.kernel.org@lists.ozlabs.org Sender: "Linuxppc-dev" On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > > > On 05/16, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > > With the introduction of pidfds through CLONE_PIDFD it is possible to > > > > > created pidfds at process creation time. > > > > > > > > Now I am wondering why do we need CLONE_PIDFD, you can just do > > > > > > > > pid = fork(); > > > > pidfd_open(pid); > > > > > > While the race window would be exceptionally short, there is the > > > possibility that the child will die > > > > Yes, > > > > > and their pid will be recycled > > > before you do pidfd_open(). > > > > No. > > > > Unless the caller's sub-thread does wait() before pidfd_open(), of course. > > Or unless you do signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_IGN). > > What about CLONE_PARENT? I should have mentioned CLONE_PARENT ;) Of course in this case the child can be reaped before pidfd_open(). But how often do you or other people use clone(CLONE_PARENT) ? not to mention you can trivially eliminate/detect this race if you really need this. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that CLONE_PIDFD is a bad idea. But to me pidfd_open() is much more useful. Say, as a perl programmer I can easily use pidfd_open(), but not CLONE_PIDFD. Oleg. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=3.0 tests=DKIMWL_WL_HIGH,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,USER_AGENT_MUTT autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BB0C04AAF for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from bombadil.infradead.org (bombadil.infradead.org [198.137.202.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C2FF20848 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:11 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=lists.infradead.org header.i=@lists.infradead.org header.b="uCKBKfkF" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org 4C2FF20848 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; 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Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=bombadil.infradead.org) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1hRIDo-0001V0-2Z; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:04 +0000 Received: from mx1.redhat.com ([209.132.183.28]) by bombadil.infradead.org with esmtps (Exim 4.90_1 #2 (Red Hat Linux)) id 1hRIDl-0001UP-Gh for linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:02 +0000 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx07.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6D1B81F0D; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from dhcp-27-174.brq.redhat.com (unknown [10.43.17.159]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CF52210027B9; Thu, 16 May 2019 15:22:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: by dhcp-27-174.brq.redhat.com (nbSMTP-1.00) for uid 1000 oleg@redhat.com; Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:53 +0200 From: Oleg Nesterov To: Aleksa Sarai Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/2] pid: add pidfd_open() Message-ID: <20190516152252.GD22564@redhat.com> References: <20190516135944.7205-1-christian@brauner.io> <20190516142659.GB22564@redhat.com> <20190516145607.j43xyj26k6l5vmbd@yavin> <20190516150611.GC22564@redhat.com> <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.27]); Thu, 16 May 2019 15:23:01 +0000 (UTC) X-CRM114-Version: 20100106-BlameMichelson ( TRE 0.8.0 (BSD) ) MR-646709E3 X-CRM114-CacheID: sfid-20190516_082301_566766_85CD4E89 X-CRM114-Status: GOOD ( 16.32 ) X-BeenThere: linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, dhowells@redhat.com, joel@joelfernandes.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, elena.reshetova@intel.com, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, dancol@google.com, Geert Uytterhoeven , Christian Brauner , serge@hallyn.com, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, keescook@chromium.org, arnd@arndb.de, jannh@google.com, linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, luto@kernel.org, tglx@linutronix.de, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, luto@amacapital.net, ebiederm@xmission.com, linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, akpm@linux-foundation.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: "linux-arm-kernel" Errors-To: linux-arm-kernel-bounces+infradead-linux-arm-kernel=archiver.kernel.org@lists.infradead.org On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > > > On 05/16, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > > With the introduction of pidfds through CLONE_PIDFD it is possible to > > > > > created pidfds at process creation time. > > > > > > > > Now I am wondering why do we need CLONE_PIDFD, you can just do > > > > > > > > pid = fork(); > > > > pidfd_open(pid); > > > > > > While the race window would be exceptionally short, there is the > > > possibility that the child will die > > > > Yes, > > > > > and their pid will be recycled > > > before you do pidfd_open(). > > > > No. > > > > Unless the caller's sub-thread does wait() before pidfd_open(), of course. > > Or unless you do signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_IGN). > > What about CLONE_PARENT? I should have mentioned CLONE_PARENT ;) Of course in this case the child can be reaped before pidfd_open(). But how often do you or other people use clone(CLONE_PARENT) ? not to mention you can trivially eliminate/detect this race if you really need this. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that CLONE_PIDFD is a bad idea. But to me pidfd_open() is much more useful. Say, as a perl programmer I can easily use pidfd_open(), but not CLONE_PIDFD. Oleg. _______________________________________________ linux-arm-kernel mailing list linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-arm-kernel From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Oleg Nesterov Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 1/2] pid: add pidfd_open() Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 17:22:53 +0200 Message-ID: <20190516152252.GD22564@redhat.com> References: <20190516135944.7205-1-christian@brauner.io> <20190516142659.GB22564@redhat.com> <20190516145607.j43xyj26k6l5vmbd@yavin> <20190516150611.GC22564@redhat.com> <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> Mime-Version: 1.0 Return-path: Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190516151202.hrawrx7hxllmz2di@yavin> Sender: linux-kernel-owner@vger.kernel.org List-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Aleksa Sarai Cc: Christian Brauner , jannh@google.com, viro@zeniv.linux.org.uk, torvalds@linux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, arnd@arndb.de, akpm@linux-foundation.org, dhowells@redhat.com, ebiederm@xmission.com, elena.reshetova@intel.com, keescook@chromium.org, luto@amacapital.net, luto@kernel.org, tglx@linutronix.de, linux-alpha@vger.kernel.org, linux-arm-kernel@lists.infradead.org, linux-ia64@vger.kernel.org, linux-m68k@lists.linux-m68k.org, linux-mips@vger.kernel.org, linux-parisc@vger.kernel.org, linuxppc-dev@lists.ozlabs.org, linux-s390@vger.kernel.org, linux-sh@vger.kernel.org, sparclinux@vger.kernel.org, linux-xtensa@linux-xtensa.org, linux-api@vger.kernel.org, linux-arch@vger.kernel.org, linux-kselftest@vger.kernel.org, joel@joelfernandes.org, da On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > On 05/17, Aleksa Sarai wrote: > > > On 2019-05-16, Oleg Nesterov wrote: > > > > On 05/16, Christian Brauner wrote: > > > > > With the introduction of pidfds through CLONE_PIDFD it is possible to > > > > > created pidfds at process creation time. > > > > > > > > Now I am wondering why do we need CLONE_PIDFD, you can just do > > > > > > > > pid = fork(); > > > > pidfd_open(pid); > > > > > > While the race window would be exceptionally short, there is the > > > possibility that the child will die > > > > Yes, > > > > > and their pid will be recycled > > > before you do pidfd_open(). > > > > No. > > > > Unless the caller's sub-thread does wait() before pidfd_open(), of course. > > Or unless you do signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_IGN). > > What about CLONE_PARENT? I should have mentioned CLONE_PARENT ;) Of course in this case the child can be reaped before pidfd_open(). But how often do you or other people use clone(CLONE_PARENT) ? not to mention you can trivially eliminate/detect this race if you really need this. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that CLONE_PIDFD is a bad idea. But to me pidfd_open() is much more useful. Say, as a perl programmer I can easily use pidfd_open(), but not CLONE_PIDFD. Oleg.