All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org>
To: "Luck, Tony" <tony.luck@intel.com>
Cc: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>, Fenghua Yu <fenghua.yu@intel.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@redhat.com>, Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>,
	H Peter Anvin <hpa@zytor.com>, Ashok Raj <ashok.raj@intel.com>,
	Ravi V Shankar <ravi.v.shankar@intel.com>,
	linux-kernel <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, x86 <x86@kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v10 6/6] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel parameter
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 11:51:41 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20191122105141.GY4114@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20191121173444.GA5581@agluck-desk2.amr.corp.intel.com>

On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 09:34:44AM -0800, Luck, Tony wrote:

> You'll notice that we are at version 10 ... lots of things have been tried
> in previous versions. This new version is to get the core functionality
> in, so we can build fancier features later.

The cover letter actually mentions that as a non-goal. Seems like a
conflicting message here.

> Enabling by default at this point would result in a flurry of complaints
> about applications being killed and kernels panicing. That would be
> followed by:

I thought we already found and fixed all the few kernel users that got
it wrong?

And applications? I've desktop'ed around a little with:

  perf stat -e sq_misc.split_lock -a -I 1000

running and that shows exactly, a grant total of, _ZERO_ split lock
usage. Except when I run my explicit split lock proglet, then it goes
through the roof.

So I really don't buy that argument. Like I've been saying forever, sane
architectures have never allowed unaligned atomics in the first place,
this means that sane software won't have any.

Furthermore, split_lock has been a performance issue on x86 for a long
long time, which is another reason why x86-specific software will not
have them.

And if you really really worry, just do a mode that pr_warn()s about the
userspace instead of SIGBUS.

> #include <linus/all-caps-rant-about-backwards-compatability.h>
>
> and the patches being reverted.

I don't buy that either, it would _maybe_ mean flipping the default. But
that very much depends on how many users and what sort of 'quality'
software they're running.

I suspect we can get away with a no_split_lock_detect boot flag. We've
had various such kernel flags in the past for new/dodgy features and
we've lived through that just fine.

Witness: no5lvl, noapic, noclflush noefi, nofxsr, etc..

> This version can serve a very useful purpose. CI systems with h/w that
> supports split lock can enable it and begin the process of finding
> and fixing the remaining kernel issues. Especially helpful if they run
> randconfig and fuzzers.

A non-lethal default enabled variant would be even better for them :-)

> We'd also find out which libraries and applications currently use
> split locks.

On my debian desktop, absolutely nothing I've used in the past hour or
so. That includes both major browsers and some A/V stuff, as well as
building a kernel and writing emails.

> Any developer with concerns about their BIOS using split locks can also
> enable using this patch and begin testing today.

I don't worry about developers much; they can't fix their BIOS other
than to return the box and try and get their money back :/


  reply	other threads:[~2019-11-22 10:51 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 145+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-11-21  0:53 [PATCH v10 0/6] Enable split lock detection for real time and debug Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 1/6] x86/msr-index: Add two new MSRs Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 2/6] x86/cpufeatures: Enumerate the IA32_CORE_CAPABILITIES MSR Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 3/6] x86/split_lock: Enumerate split lock detection by " Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 4/6] x86/split_lock: Enumerate split lock detection if the IA32_CORE_CAPABILITIES MSR is not supported Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 22:07   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  0:37     ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-22  2:13       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  9:46         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 5/6] x86/split_lock: Handle #AC exception for split lock Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 22:10   ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 23:14     ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 23:12       ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21  0:53 ` [PATCH v10 6/6] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel parameter Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21  6:04   ` Ingo Molnar
2019-11-21 13:01     ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 13:15       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 21:51         ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-21 22:24           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 22:29             ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-21 23:18               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 23:53                 ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-22  1:52                   ` Sean Christopherson
2019-11-22  2:21                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  2:39                       ` Xiaoyao Li
2019-11-22  2:57                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 23:55                 ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22  0:55             ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 10:08           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 16:14       ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 17:14         ` Ingo Molnar
2019-11-21 17:35         ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 17:12       ` Ingo Molnar
2019-11-21 17:34         ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 10:51           ` Peter Zijlstra [this message]
2019-11-22 15:27             ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 17:22               ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 20:23                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 18:02               ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 20:23                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 20:42                   ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-22 21:25                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-12  8:57                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-12 18:52                         ` Luck, Tony
2019-12-12 19:46                           ` Luck, Tony
2019-12-12 20:01                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-16 16:21                               ` David Laight
2019-11-22 18:44               ` Sean Christopherson
2019-11-22 20:30                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-23  0:30               ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-25 16:13                 ` Sean Christopherson
2019-12-02 18:20                   ` Luck, Tony
2019-12-12  8:59                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-01-10 19:24                     ` [PATCH v11] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel Luck, Tony
2020-01-14  5:55                       ` Sean Christopherson
2020-01-15 22:27                         ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-15 22:57                           ` Sean Christopherson
2020-01-15 23:48                             ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-22 18:55                             ` [PATCH v12] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-22 19:04                               ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-22 20:03                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-22 20:55                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-22 22:42                               ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-22 22:52                                 ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-22 23:24                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-23  0:45                                   ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-23  1:23                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-23  4:21                                       ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-23 17:15                                         ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-23  3:53                                     ` [PATCH v13] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-23  4:45                                       ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-23 23:16                                         ` [PATCH v14] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-24 21:36                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-01-25  2:47                                             ` [PATCH v15] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 10:44                                               ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-25 19:55                                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 20:12                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-01-25 20:33                                                     ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-25 21:42                                                       ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 22:17                                                         ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-25 20:29                                                   ` Borislav Petkov
2020-01-25 13:41                                               ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-01-25 22:07                                                 ` [PATCH v16] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 22:43                                                   ` Mark D Rustad
2020-01-25 23:10                                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-26 17:27                                                       ` Mark D Rustad
2020-01-26 20:05                                                         ` [PATCH v17] " Luck, Tony
2020-01-29 12:31                                                           ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-01-29 15:24                                                           ` [tip: x86/cpu] " tip-bot2 for Peter Zijlstra (Intel)
2020-02-03 20:41                                                           ` [PATCH v17] " Sean Christopherson
2020-02-06  0:49                                                             ` [PATCH] x86/split_lock: Avoid runtime reads of the TEST_CTRL MSR Luck, Tony
2020-02-06  1:18                                                               ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-02-06 16:46                                                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-02-06 19:37                                                                   ` Andy Lutomirski
2020-03-03 19:22                                                                     ` Sean Christopherson
2020-02-04  0:04                                                           ` [PATCH v17] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel Sean Christopherson
2020-02-04 12:52                                                             ` Thomas Gleixner
2020-01-26  0:34                                                   ` [PATCH v16] " Andy Lutomirski
2020-01-26 20:01                                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 21:25                                               ` [PATCH v15] " Arvind Sankar
2020-01-25 21:50                                                 ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-25 23:51                                                   ` Arvind Sankar
2020-01-26  2:52                                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-27  2:05                                                       ` Tony Luck
2020-01-27  8:04                                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-01-27  8:36                                                     ` Peter Zijlstra
2020-01-27 17:35                                                     ` Luck, Tony
2020-01-27  8:02                                                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-13  0:09               ` [PATCH v11] x86/split_lock: Enable split lock detection by kernel parameter Tony Luck
2019-12-13  0:16                 ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-21 17:43         ` [PATCH v10 6/6] " David Laight
2019-11-21 17:51           ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 18:53             ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 19:01               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-21 20:25                 ` Fenghua Yu
2019-11-21 20:19                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 19:46               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 20:25               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 21:22                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  9:25                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 17:48                     ` Luck, Tony
2019-11-22 20:31                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22 21:23                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-11 17:52                           ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-11 18:12                             ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-11 22:34                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-12 19:40                                 ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-16  9:59                                   ` David Laight
2019-12-16 17:22                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-16 17:45                                       ` David Laight
2019-12-16 18:06                                         ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-17 10:03                                           ` David Laight
2019-12-11 18:44                             ` Luck, Tony
2019-12-11 22:39                               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-12 10:36                                 ` David Laight
2019-12-12 13:04                                   ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-12-12 16:02                                     ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-12-12 16:23                                       ` David Laight
2019-12-12 16:29                                     ` David Laight
2019-11-21 19:56             ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21 21:01               ` Andy Lutomirski
2019-11-22  9:36                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-22  9:46             ` David Laight
2019-11-22 20:32               ` Peter Zijlstra
2019-11-21  8:00   ` Peter Zijlstra

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20191122105141.GY4114@hirez.programming.kicks-ass.net \
    --to=peterz@infradead.org \
    --cc=ashok.raj@intel.com \
    --cc=bp@alien8.de \
    --cc=fenghua.yu@intel.com \
    --cc=hpa@zytor.com \
    --cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mingo@kernel.org \
    --cc=mingo@redhat.com \
    --cc=ravi.v.shankar@intel.com \
    --cc=tglx@linutronix.de \
    --cc=tony.luck@intel.com \
    --cc=x86@kernel.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.