From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.0 (2014-02-07) on aws-us-west-2-korg-lkml-1.web.codeaurora.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=3.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS, USER_AGENT_SANE_1 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.0 Received: from mail.kernel.org (mail.kernel.org [198.145.29.99]) by smtp.lore.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F03C43331 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:03:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.kernel.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE29C20838 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:03:22 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com header.i=@redhat.com header.b="S+Trhs4n" DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mail.kernel.org BE29C20838 Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=redhat.com Authentication-Results: mail.kernel.org; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Received: from localhost ([::1]:36826 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jJFc1-00022a-UH for qemu-devel@archiver.kernel.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:03:21 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60283) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jJFbA-0001Z4-P5 for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:02:29 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jJFb9-0003DL-MX for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:02:28 -0400 Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com ([205.139.110.120]:42219 helo=us-smtp-1.mimecast.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jJFb9-0003Cz-Ia for qemu-devel@nongnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:02:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1585656147; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=8b3OCcKTdClt1+Sl59nn500irZxsM7wqYKrT2dAhaE0=; b=S+Trhs4nHGQm7VxNQc2FWo/IhfTPr3NFhPDwSPm5v52aeAI9LO9R6kA90excv/1rqzor8Q g7EwEQ7UpA0/V/qrfEDAOY95V3fBS+mfz+7+AlF7pBRSDBfOTJp7pIuMKQn013Jt/s1Goc Iofy0zWQK0kmLeik+tYK8K+5ZgFfu98= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-142-1lvPYgmIPzSBdSaqbOXqqw-1; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 08:02:23 -0400 X-MC-Unique: 1lvPYgmIPzSBdSaqbOXqqw-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx07.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DCA613FD; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:02:22 +0000 (UTC) Received: from linux.fritz.box (ovpn-114-236.ams2.redhat.com [10.36.114.236]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B2FA100EBBD; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 12:02:21 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 14:02:20 +0200 From: Kevin Wolf To: Paolo Bonzini Subject: Re: deprecation of in-tree builds Message-ID: <20200331120220.GA7030@linux.fritz.box> References: <87v9mmug73.fsf@dusky.pond.sub.org> <20200330134212.GO236854@redhat.com> <20200330143759.GD6139@linux.fritz.box> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 205.139.110.120 X-BeenThere: qemu-devel@nongnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Peter Maydell , Daniel =?iso-8859-1?Q?P=2E_Berrang=E9?= , Markus Armbruster , QEMU Developers Errors-To: qemu-devel-bounces+qemu-devel=archiver.kernel.org@nongnu.org Sender: "Qemu-devel" Am 31.03.2020 um 09:48 hat Paolo Bonzini geschrieben: > On 30/03/20 16:37, Kevin Wolf wrote: > > If manually dealing with separate build directories is inconvenient > > today, it will still be inconvenient with Meson, so this would mean > > introducing the automatic directly creation together with the other > > changes to enable Meson. Which is fine by me, as long as it is really > > done when the external directory becomes mandatory, so that people won'= t > > have to switch back and forth between directories. >=20 > Serious question: why is automatic directly creation more convenient for > developers? Even if "./configure" generates a "build" directory for > you, you would still have to invoke the QEMU binary as > "build/x86_64-softmmu/qemu-system-x86_64". That is less convenient than > doing "mkdir build" in the first place. Mainly because it allows me to start everything (most importantly: my editor, git and make) from the same directory. I guess the automatic directory creation is the less important part compared to a Makefile in the source tree that calls the Makefile in the build directory, because creation the directory is a one-time thing, but I call make all the time. Creating it automatically is nice especially for those who build QEMU for the first time and expect that the ./configure; make; make install sequence they are used to just works. Prefixing build/ when using the binaries is a change, too, but I guess tab completion means that it's not much worse than prefixing ./ > I can see why it's more convenient for packaging, as they just invoke > "make" and "make install", but as far as developers are concerned it > seems to add complexity for little or no gain. I often use the same terminal for building/testing and git, or sometimes even a second editor for source code. Kevin